Comments on: An Interview with Jonathan Pennington http://thegospelcoalition.org/blogs/justintaylor/2007/01/09/interview-with-jonathan-pennington/ Between Two Worlds Sun, 12 Feb 2012 03:46:14 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.1 By: Bill Combs http://thegospelcoalition.org/blogs/justintaylor/2007/01/09/interview-with-jonathan-pennington/#comment-8984 Bill Combs Thu, 11 Jan 2007 16:06:00 +0000 http://thegospelcoalition.org/blog/btw/2007/01/09/an-interview-with-jonathan-pennington/#comment-8984 Johathan,<br/>Not all Classical D make a distinction between the Kingdom of Heaven and God. Not even everyone who taught at Dallas Seminary. I teach at a Classical D school and graduated from Grace Theological Seminary (which for most of its history was a Classical D school), neither of which held to this distinction. My theology teacher when I was at Tennessee Temple (a Classical D school), who was trained by Ryrie, did not hold to the distinction. I am not sure what the percentages would actually be among Classical D--those who do and those who do not make the distinction--, but in my experience in Classical D, my guess is that in the last 40 years there have actually been more Classical D who have not made the distinction--but I could be wrong. Anyway, I look forward to studying your viewpoint more thoroughly.<br/><br/>Bill Combs<br/>Detroit Baptist Theological Seminary Johathan,
Not all Classical D make a distinction between the Kingdom of Heaven and God. Not even everyone who taught at Dallas Seminary. I teach at a Classical D school and graduated from Grace Theological Seminary (which for most of its history was a Classical D school), neither of which held to this distinction. My theology teacher when I was at Tennessee Temple (a Classical D school), who was trained by Ryrie, did not hold to the distinction. I am not sure what the percentages would actually be among Classical D–those who do and those who do not make the distinction–, but in my experience in Classical D, my guess is that in the last 40 years there have actually been more Classical D who have not made the distinction–but I could be wrong. Anyway, I look forward to studying your viewpoint more thoroughly.

Bill Combs
Detroit Baptist Theological Seminary

]]> By: Bridges http://thegospelcoalition.org/blogs/justintaylor/2007/01/09/interview-with-jonathan-pennington/#comment-8972 Bridges Thu, 11 Jan 2007 12:52:00 +0000 http://thegospelcoalition.org/blog/btw/2007/01/09/an-interview-with-jonathan-pennington/#comment-8972 As an aside, I appreciate Dr. Pennington. Though he did not know me, he offered some very helpful advice via e-mail to me and my family before we moved here to Scotland. Just wanted to give a "shout out" to him.<br/><br/>Great interview, JT. Thanks for all of your work.<br/><br/>Tim Bridges As an aside, I appreciate Dr. Pennington. Though he did not know me, he offered some very helpful advice via e-mail to me and my family before we moved here to Scotland. Just wanted to give a “shout out” to him.

Great interview, JT. Thanks for all of your work.

Tim Bridges

]]> By: DJP http://thegospelcoalition.org/blogs/justintaylor/2007/01/09/interview-with-jonathan-pennington/#comment-8950 DJP Wed, 10 Jan 2007 22:21:00 +0000 http://thegospelcoalition.org/blog/btw/2007/01/09/an-interview-with-jonathan-pennington/#comment-8950 Yes, reading Ladd, one does get a lot of "already."<br/><br/>Reading the NT, I get a great deal more "not yet." Yes, reading Ladd, one does get a lot of “already.”

Reading the NT, I get a great deal more “not yet.”

]]> By: Drew Pinkley http://thegospelcoalition.org/blogs/justintaylor/2007/01/09/interview-with-jonathan-pennington/#comment-8934 Drew Pinkley Wed, 10 Jan 2007 16:30:00 +0000 http://thegospelcoalition.org/blog/btw/2007/01/09/an-interview-with-jonathan-pennington/#comment-8934 This was extremely helpful. Please continue interviews or posts like this!<br/><br/>--Drew Pinkley This was extremely helpful. Please continue interviews or posts like this!

–Drew Pinkley

]]> By: JTPennington http://thegospelcoalition.org/blogs/justintaylor/2007/01/09/interview-with-jonathan-pennington/#comment-8931 JTPennington Wed, 10 Jan 2007 15:02:00 +0000 http://thegospelcoalition.org/blog/btw/2007/01/09/an-interview-with-jonathan-pennington/#comment-8931 Thanks for the comments. I thought I'd just drop a note to say that while I do disagree with Dispensationalism in all its forms, I am aware that Progressive D has evolved considerably from the older days (and this is good!). This is why I was careful in my brief comments to call it Classical D and to mention Progressive D separately. From what I've read in Progressive D I was fairly certain that they didn't hold this view, but then again, it is a diverse crowd. I was trying to be careful and fair by not wrongly stating their position(s).<br/>Also, I realize in this short interview that I didn't explicitly mention 'already but not yet', but this is certainly central to my thinking. It is what I hint at with my comments about the current tension between God's reign in heaven and our Lord's Prayer hope for that to fully come on earth. This crucial notion informs all my eschatological understanding.<br/>-- Blessings,<br/>JTPennington Thanks for the comments. I thought I’d just drop a note to say that while I do disagree with Dispensationalism in all its forms, I am aware that Progressive D has evolved considerably from the older days (and this is good!). This is why I was careful in my brief comments to call it Classical D and to mention Progressive D separately. From what I’ve read in Progressive D I was fairly certain that they didn’t hold this view, but then again, it is a diverse crowd. I was trying to be careful and fair by not wrongly stating their position(s).
Also, I realize in this short interview that I didn’t explicitly mention ‘already but not yet’, but this is certainly central to my thinking. It is what I hint at with my comments about the current tension between God’s reign in heaven and our Lord’s Prayer hope for that to fully come on earth. This crucial notion informs all my eschatological understanding.
– Blessings,
JTPennington

]]> By: Barry http://thegospelcoalition.org/blogs/justintaylor/2007/01/09/interview-with-jonathan-pennington/#comment-8930 Barry Wed, 10 Jan 2007 14:53:00 +0000 http://thegospelcoalition.org/blog/btw/2007/01/09/an-interview-with-jonathan-pennington/#comment-8930 Blaising and Bock's book, Progressive Dispensationalism, lays out the view pretty clearly, which is vehemently already-but-not-yet. This is one of the features of Prog Disp, and what sets it apart from "Classical Disp," as well as "Revised Disp." In fact, PG is so progressive that many of the Revised Disp (such as Ryrie and a few others) have stated that PD is not even dispensationalism at all. In my understanding, the work of Ladd and others was highly influential on this matter.<br/><br/>Blessings,<br/>Barry Blaising and Bock’s book, Progressive Dispensationalism, lays out the view pretty clearly, which is vehemently already-but-not-yet. This is one of the features of Prog Disp, and what sets it apart from “Classical Disp,” as well as “Revised Disp.” In fact, PG is so progressive that many of the Revised Disp (such as Ryrie and a few others) have stated that PD is not even dispensationalism at all. In my understanding, the work of Ladd and others was highly influential on this matter.

Blessings,
Barry

]]> By: Duane http://thegospelcoalition.org/blogs/justintaylor/2007/01/09/interview-with-jonathan-pennington/#comment-8927 Duane Wed, 10 Jan 2007 14:33:00 +0000 http://thegospelcoalition.org/blog/btw/2007/01/09/an-interview-with-jonathan-pennington/#comment-8927 Hi JT,<br/><br/>Some dispensationalists do not. I am not one of those. I do believe in an already aspect of Christ's Kingdom. Dispensationalists are divided on that issue, unfortunately. Hi JT,

Some dispensationalists do not. I am not one of those. I do believe in an already aspect of Christ’s Kingdom. Dispensationalists are divided on that issue, unfortunately.

]]> By: JT http://thegospelcoalition.org/blogs/justintaylor/2007/01/09/interview-with-jonathan-pennington/#comment-8926 JT Wed, 10 Jan 2007 13:59:00 +0000 http://thegospelcoalition.org/blog/btw/2007/01/09/an-interview-with-jonathan-pennington/#comment-8926 So you guys would see <i>no</i> "already" aspect to the kingdom? I find that pretty hard to believe! I thought Ladd's case in his NT Theology won the day pretty clearly on that issue.<br/><br/>JT So you guys would see no “already” aspect to the kingdom? I find that pretty hard to believe! I thought Ladd’s case in his NT Theology won the day pretty clearly on that issue.

JT

]]> By: Duane http://thegospelcoalition.org/blogs/justintaylor/2007/01/09/interview-with-jonathan-pennington/#comment-8925 Duane Wed, 10 Jan 2007 13:48:00 +0000 http://thegospelcoalition.org/blog/btw/2007/01/09/an-interview-with-jonathan-pennington/#comment-8925 I'll chime in on djp's comments. I am basically a dispensationalist (maybe I qualify as a progressive dispensationalists), and I went to a strongly dispensationalists seminary. I have heard that some older dispensationalists tried to make the Kingdom of heaven/God distinction, but that it never was widely accepted and certainly is not accepted by most, if any, dispensationalists today. I think almost all would hold to the current "reverential" view. <br/><br/>Many dispensationalists would see the "Kingdom of God/Heaven" as an entirely future reign of Christ on earth. Many others, however, would see in it current aspects of Christ's rule as well.<br/><br/>Hardly any dispensationalists, to my knowledge, (and I think I am fairly familiar with the mainstream of dispensationalism) would believe what Dr. Pennington described as the "classical" dispensational view.<br/><br/>It is unfortanate that scholarly circles are so uninformed about such a significant (even if unrespected) element of evangelical theology. I’ll chime in on djp’s comments. I am basically a dispensationalist (maybe I qualify as a progressive dispensationalists), and I went to a strongly dispensationalists seminary. I have heard that some older dispensationalists tried to make the Kingdom of heaven/God distinction, but that it never was widely accepted and certainly is not accepted by most, if any, dispensationalists today. I think almost all would hold to the current “reverential” view.

Many dispensationalists would see the “Kingdom of God/Heaven” as an entirely future reign of Christ on earth. Many others, however, would see in it current aspects of Christ’s rule as well.

Hardly any dispensationalists, to my knowledge, (and I think I am fairly familiar with the mainstream of dispensationalism) would believe what Dr. Pennington described as the “classical” dispensational view.

It is unfortanate that scholarly circles are so uninformed about such a significant (even if unrespected) element of evangelical theology.

]]> By: Daniel http://thegospelcoalition.org/blogs/justintaylor/2007/01/09/interview-with-jonathan-pennington/#comment-8922 Daniel Tue, 09 Jan 2007 23:16:00 +0000 http://thegospelcoalition.org/blog/btw/2007/01/09/an-interview-with-jonathan-pennington/#comment-8922 Sounds a lot like NT Wright's work on the gospels and the Kingdom. Sounds a lot like NT Wright’s work on the gospels and the Kingdom.

]]> By: Michael F. Bird http://thegospelcoalition.org/blogs/justintaylor/2007/01/09/interview-with-jonathan-pennington/#comment-8921 Michael F. Bird Tue, 09 Jan 2007 22:45:00 +0000 http://thegospelcoalition.org/blog/btw/2007/01/09/an-interview-with-jonathan-pennington/#comment-8921 JT, great interview. More like this please! Pennington is a great guy with a heart of godly gold. JT, great interview. More like this please! Pennington is a great guy with a heart of godly gold.

]]> By: Vitamin Z http://thegospelcoalition.org/blogs/justintaylor/2007/01/09/interview-with-jonathan-pennington/#comment-8920 Vitamin Z Tue, 09 Jan 2007 21:22:00 +0000 http://thegospelcoalition.org/blog/btw/2007/01/09/an-interview-with-jonathan-pennington/#comment-8920 When are you going to interview me? We could talk about Jerry and Todd. It would rock When are you going to interview me? We could talk about Jerry and Todd. It would rock

]]> By: DJP http://thegospelcoalition.org/blogs/justintaylor/2007/01/09/interview-with-jonathan-pennington/#comment-8915 DJP Tue, 09 Jan 2007 14:34:00 +0000 http://thegospelcoalition.org/blog/btw/2007/01/09/an-interview-with-jonathan-pennington/#comment-8915 Very interesting, thanks.<br/><br/>Are there dispensationalists who distinguish the phrases today? I'm one, and I don't. When was the last time one did?<br/><br/>Puzzles me that this is his specialty, so to speak, and he doesn't know the progressive dispensationalist view.<br/><br/>I appreciate that he consistently refers to the kingdom as futue. I'd have liked to see him asked about the already/not-yet, realized eschatology canard. Very interesting, thanks.

Are there dispensationalists who distinguish the phrases today? I’m one, and I don’t. When was the last time one did?

Puzzles me that this is his specialty, so to speak, and he doesn’t know the progressive dispensationalist view.

I appreciate that he consistently refers to the kingdom as futue. I’d have liked to see him asked about the already/not-yet, realized eschatology canard.

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