But as we practically live out our lives here in this cesspool of sinful society, certainly we commend good behavior, and call for justice when it is called for.
There’s a time to hate and a time to love.

Jesus says to love your enemy. Does that mean I love him as i love my wife?

The Christina walk has deep subjects, and doctrines, which are all laid upon the Rock of Ages, and built upon our Cornerstone Jesus Christ, who is the Truth.

This has been a benficial thread for me.
Thanks Justin.

Have a great weekend an Christ-focused Lord’s day in this most joyful season of commemorating our Lord’s birth.

in Christ,
c

For me the question is, are we going to confess “sin” or our “sins”? The first is so obviously true for me and I would think for every Christian that it kind of goes without saying. It is a sort of easy out. The second can be incredibly painful and truly humbling. To say, “Yeah I am capable of that” is one thing, but to say “I have these thoughts” is another. It moves from the theoretical to the actual, the concrete.

If we end up in the “I am capable of that” category all the time we will be posting blogs about every single event of the pagan world! But, to talk about my own, my personal sins, makes it, well, personal.

Take care,
Chris

I have no idea why CJ didn’t write an article on gunning down people in a coffee shop. (He has written similar things in the past about other issues though) I can tell you as a Pastor that has counseled others that the sin of adultery is far more prevalent than cold blooded murder in the church today. I understand that we all have the sin within our hearts to commit murder but is it at epidemic proportions in the church today?

Your clarification was helpful, but, CJ was just trying to be pastoral in a situation that no matter where you look, it is on the front page. (And will be for some time)

Jeremiah,

Yes we are to work out salvation with fear and trembling. There is no ‘let go and let God’ in me. But realize that any good work you do is because of the grace of God (Romans 7:14-ff). It is not because you have some super will to overcome sin. Sanctification requires God empowered work through the Holy Spirit. All glory goes to Him. (That is not what came across when you and Chris wrote in my opinion)

You have adultery in your heart. You have murder in your heart. Were it not for the Spirit and most likely a healthy fear of consequences of your actions from loved ones and the ‘government’ you too could fall. (That is CJ’s secondary point)

All,
The bulk of CJ’s article was about praying for Tiger’s salvation. The secondary point was to examine yourself. (Matt 7:1-7; Gal 6:1-4). Let’s not lose the point. You may not struggle with sexual sin but ‘take heed lest you fall’ (1 Cor. 10:12) in other areas of you life. When public sin is shown we are to pray for the one in sin and also search our own hearts. That is the Biblical model.

Every day there are stories in the news of sinners who publicly act out. Just the other day there was a man who walked into a coffee shop and gunned down four police officers. That was just one story among many.

Now, why is it that when sexual immorality, adultery, is mentioned suddenly the old “there but” gets hauled out? Why didn’t Mahaney get online and write up a quick “but for” when the guy gunned down the officers, or the man beat his wife to death, or the man held up the bank?

Do you see my point? There seems to be a cliff-like existence in some men’s hearts, where they walk on the edge of tipping over into the gully every time they see a pretty woman, or a lady gives them a furtive glance. If they are, there is deeper trouble going on. But, when a wife hears this, what does she think? “My husband is that close to falling over?” What about the other side of the coin, in that resurrection life now dominates me, and I do not WANT to commit adultery, but instead love my wife?

In my view each one of us has certain besetting sins, and we are not all alike. Some are vain, some are full of jealousy, some are angry. But, not every man is going to tip over into every sin that goes public. That is why the bumper-stickerish “but for” now sounds trite. If Mahaney had said, “Man oh man do I wrestle with lust and sometimes long to sleep with another woman besides my wife”, well now, THAT is a real confession. And, maybe that is what he was saying in an ambiguous sort of way.

One more thing, grace is no excuse to sin. I am with Paul on that one. So if anyone read that kind of idea into what I was saying, I am sorry that I was not more clear, and you misunderstood. “Be holy as I am holy, says the LORD”.

Frankly, this whole thing just gets to me, when a Christian believes that every event requires “perspective” from an authority. Sorry, but most of us read our bibles and know what adultery is, and we know our own hearts. The Bible really is sufficient.

Thanks for your response.

Yes, we should look and learn from the mistakes of others and to take heed lest we fall.

However I would point out that we, as believers, play a part in our sanctification. Phil 2:12, Rom 8:13 obviously this is not apart from the Holy Spirit but in cooperation. Also, there will be degrees of reward. I believe you can understand the gospel and affirm this.

There is a responsibility that a believer has before God that an unbeliever doesn’t. We have the Holy Spirit and therefore the ability walk uprightly before the Lord. And the Spirit should keep us humble in all things, but the Spirit also brings sin to the light. Praying that the same Spirit would do a work of true conviction in Tiger, that would lead to new life.
Grace and peace.

Btw, does anyone out there know why CJ doesn’t let people comment on his public blog? Curious?

You underestimate Jeremiah 17:9.

When a man looks and learns from the mistakes of others that is what is called wisdom. (Prov. 24:30-34)

I do not think that CJ was trying to get anyone to excuse the sins in their lives. He is really confronting the sin of self-righteousness. That is often what we do in the church and he was making sure that before we bring the hammer, we look at the speck in our own eyes. (Matt. 7:1-7)

What keeps either one of you guys from committing the sin of adultery or any other sin? If your answer is anything other than the grace of God working in my life as He makes me more and more like His Son, you do not understand the Gospel. (Phil 2:12-13)

Tiger is an unbeliever and is clearly in the area of Romans 1, but that was not the point of the article. The point was to pray for him, and not become like the ‘stone throwing’ masses out there. How do we do that? By realizing that though we have not committed the same sin, we have enough sin in our own hearts to do the same if not worse.

C. S. Lewis has Screwtape make this point rather clearly when he observes (paraphrasing now — I’m at work and don’t have the book handy) that humanity is easily distracted from essential truth by getting bogged down in how that truth is expressed, until given enough distraction, we wind up discarding the truth altogether in debating its presentation.

Hebrews 12 would seem an apt reference at this point… but since it’s not original, I won’t (he said, ducking and grinning).

– Jeff

I simply believe if a sinner in this world is without the Lord’s grace and Spirit, then that same sinner is capable of any sin, murder, child molesting, anything.
Some may disagree, and think humans can live good lives without God’s grace, and I understand where you’re coming from.

I don’t believe I can do one good deed, that is righteous, unless it is by God’s gracious grace and power. And every good deed I seem to do in and of myself is tainted, though it may be a good deed for sure.

This is a deep subject, and am thankful for the thoughts and comments to make me think.

Have a blessed Lord’s Day.

As he said, adultery happens in the church all the time, how come we only seem to latch onto it when a high-profile athlete/pop star/actor/politician/fill-in-the-blank is involved?

Clearly, “it is time for judgment to begin with the family of God; and if it begins with us, what will the outcome be for those who do not obey the gospel of God?”

Sorry, this was meant to be sarcastic. problem with online discussions sometimes. I was responding to the previous thought,

“Because, make no mistake, if you have a great marriage, or even a good one, it’s only because God has given something to you that he hasn’t given everyone.”

Hope that clarifies.

…really? …you are making this argument? Read Romans my friend, around 6-8, and then re-think your question. That said, good clarification on the original quote, but it still makes sense in the context even if we’re talking adultery and not execution. For your answer to that one, read Romans 1.

Please look up the original quote by John Bradford, “There but for the grace of God go I.”
He said this as he saw criminals being taken off to be executed!

This brings much clarity to this oft misunderstood quote. The execution(judgment) and not falling into any particular sin, is what the grace of God keeps us from.

I have, often. And because shwe understands her own sin, she understands it to be true.

What would you have us say Chris? There but for my willpower and dogged determination go I?

We’ve seen, and are currently seeing marriages failing all around us. Some situations in which we are deeply involved, others among the closest of our friends.
So we look at each other and say “I’ve never been more grateful for the marriage we’ve been given.”
Because, make no mistake, if you have a great marriage, or even a good one, it’s only because God has given something to you that he hasn’t given everyone.

How that’s pride is way above my pay grade.

My response: I concur. I listened to a recorded sermon preached by Martin Lloyd-Jones and he asked if some people get their jollies from reading the court proceeding details. (Back then you didn’t have the internet or Oprah). And we should not be entertained by this stuff. We should change the channels or don’t click on the links from the Woods stories.

At the same time, Tiger was a despicable husband, and any adulterer is. Davis was a murderer and an adulterer, one of the most despicable men in God’s family. But David is a man after God’s own heart as well, and the apple of His eye.