The Gospel Coalition

7 Comments

1. donsands

   February 24, 2010 at 1:12 pm

   Well spoken and good video. We need to aknowledge every day that we need to acknowledge God in all our ways, and not lean to our own understanding, and trust in the Lord, and He will direct our paths.

   Calvin said, “the human heart is an idol factor.”

   “We know that everyone who has been born of God does not keep on sinning, but he who was born of God protects him, and the evil one does not touch him.
   We know that we are from God, and the whole world lies in the power of the evil one.

   And we know that the Son of God has come and has given us understanding, so that we may know him who is true; and we are in him who is true, in his Son Jesus Christ. He is the true God and eternal life. Little children, keep yourselves from idols.” 1 John 5:18-21

2. chris

   February 24, 2010 at 2:18 pm

   An interesting take on things, and I get the idea of the disposition of the heart, etc. But here are a few questions:

   1. Is not the consideration of the created order as a means to economic growth part of God’s plan for man, even before the fall? Consider Gen. 2:10. Using the tools we are given as a means of avoiding poverty seems like wisdom to me, not idolatry.
   2. Is not the vocation we are given part of the identity that God gives us? For example: lawyers, doctors, pastors, artists, etc. are known with these identifying cultural roles. These are biblical notions, as for example Daniel as Administrator, Luke the Doctor (Col. 4:14), etc.
   3. Is not all our life service to the Lord, as we are to serve Him “continually” not just when we are in the church building, or doing church activities?

   My concern is that the passage quoted is being used as an absolute, and applied to things that have legitimate place in our lives. The result can be a kind of spiritual paralysis, and the legitimizing of only those things that take place in a “spiritual context” (whatever that is). Isaiah is right, but it may be an application that is too extreme in its implications.

   I hear this sort of splitting of life happen frequently in both blatant and, most of the time, subtle ways.

   • Blake

     February 25, 2010 at 10:46 pm

     Chris,

     I am not aiming at hostility here, but it is clear from your posts that you have an agenda. Nobody would split hairs the way you do on a video like this unless they had reason to discredit the authorship.

     As for your arguments:

     1. The video never suggests that using the tools we are given to avoid poverty is idolatry. It suggests that bowing down and living as if those tools are the ultimate provider and deliverer is idolatry.
     2. The video never suggests that music cannot be part of God’s given identity. Again, it simply notes that our vocation can become an idol. Surely you’re aware that a doctor can fall into the sin of worshiping what he does and not the God that gave him the ability.
     3. Can your third point be serious? Do you really think that this video can be interpreted to say that we should not serve Him “continually”?

     MY concern is that you are arguing against things the video never said, and cleary did NOT suggest. Usually people will do this when they have a prior agenda upon entering into a critique. Your responses reek of this attitude.

     A short video could say: “Praise God through music” and then be done. Then, a similar comment to the ones you have made here would respond “I’m concerned that this video does not state other ways in which we could worship God. It is implying that the ONLY way to worship God is through music.” This sort of nitpicking only comes out when the goal is to tear down the subject matter, no matter how kind and logical you make your response out to be.

     • chris

       February 26, 2010 at 10:51 am

       Blake,
       Everyone has an agenda, some good some bad. Mine might be construed as bad, because I take issue with I think is a misapplication of Scripture, or perhaps a sloppy one. The Word says much more about the issues that the young man brings up, ones that are actually positive and life-building- not ambiguous and piously paralyzing.

       I disagree with you, but I don’t have time to argue back. Sorry about the reek, but I am not sure that the smell is not your own. Attitudes abound.

       And no, I would not have responded the way you suggest in the final paragraph.

3. Mike Riccardi

   February 24, 2010 at 7:15 pm

   Funny, Chris. A concern I had is basically the opposite of yours. I think that the guy in the video agrees with the principle you’re presenting, namely, the “worship-God-in-all-of-life” idea. I think that’s evident because he didn’t stop being a musician. He just rid his heart of worshiping the music for the prestige it could promise him.

   What I’m wondering about is the implications of “redeeming the idol.” He mentions that God didn’t just crush the idol, but redeemed it, and allowed him to worship Him with the very thing that he once worshiped. What would the parallel of that be in Isaiah 44? How would the man in Isaiah use the idol he fashioned out of his leftover firewood to now serve Yahweh? Then again, I’m not sure it’d be necessary for the guy in the video to just stop playing music, as he can most certainly play music to God’s glory.

   I dunno… anyone else wondering about that?

   • chris

     February 25, 2010 at 9:23 pm

     BTW — Just a clarification.

     I am not presenting a “worship God in all of life” notion, as you said. That is not what I said, neither is it what I meant. Rather, I am saying to “serve God continually” as Daniel did (Dan. 6:20), which for him meant being a bureaucrat.

4. chris

   February 25, 2010 at 10:38 am

   Mike,
   Good point. I see how you are pushing the logic in the other direction. I just don’t think Isaiah applies, and your question brings up more of the same kind of problems that the guy’s application creates: it is too extreme. If what he says is true, then how do you redeem the idol? You can’t. We are supposed to burn them. You point out the inevitable tensions that are created with the kind of reasoning he uses: we end up living with a sort of uneasy feeling about whatever it is we do.

   In my mind it is not the issue of the guitar or whatever, it is the issue of the heart’s disposition towards the One True God. If that is taken care of, then all of life is “OK”.

   The video-guy goes through a number of issues that he lists as kinds of idolatry, but the Word of God gives us direction in regards to those things. Such as economic development (Genesis 2:12 was the actual verse I meant), etc. Rather than a kind of “zippo raid” on music or whatever, why not look for a biblical worldview- the way God sees things?

   I am not sure where he pursues music now, but I have to ask whether he is actually a professional full-time outside the doors of the church. Or, whether he is now a “worship” leader as such.

   Any way. There are many angles on this, and I just wish that the guys at Mars Hill were taking a more balanced view of things, rather than nuking whatever comes in their way – (for example: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9cI5GxM4f50 ).

   Take care,
   c