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	<title>Comments on: C.S. Lewis: &#8220;Three Kinds of Men&#8221;</title>
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	<link>http://thegospelcoalition.org/blogs/justintaylor/2010/05/10/c-s-lewis-three-kinds-of-men/</link>
	<description>Between Two Worlds</description>
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		<title>By: C.S. Lewis: “Three Kinds of Men” &#171; Already Not Yet</title>
		<link>http://thegospelcoalition.org/blogs/justintaylor/2010/05/10/c-s-lewis-three-kinds-of-men/#comment-63025</link>
		<dc:creator>C.S. Lewis: “Three Kinds of Men” &#171; Already Not Yet</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 12 May 2010 13:09:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thegospelcoalition.org/blogs/justintaylor/?p=9672#comment-63025</guid>
		<description>[...] [HT: Tim Keller; Dane Ortlund via Justin Taylor] [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] [HT: Tim Keller; Dane Ortlund via Justin Taylor] [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Christian Rendel</title>
		<link>http://thegospelcoalition.org/blogs/justintaylor/2010/05/10/c-s-lewis-three-kinds-of-men/#comment-62938</link>
		<dc:creator>Christian Rendel</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 11 May 2010 06:20:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thegospelcoalition.org/blogs/justintaylor/?p=9672#comment-62938</guid>
		<description>Actually, the older brother isn&#039;t thrown out. At the end of the parable, we see the father pleading with him to come in. Jesus, I believe, very deliberatly leaves open how the older brother will finally respond to the invitation to get over his stingyness and join the feast.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Actually, the older brother isn&#8217;t thrown out. At the end of the parable, we see the father pleading with him to come in. Jesus, I believe, very deliberatly leaves open how the older brother will finally respond to the invitation to get over his stingyness and join the feast.</p>
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		<title>By: Mike Riccardi</title>
		<link>http://thegospelcoalition.org/blogs/justintaylor/2010/05/10/c-s-lewis-three-kinds-of-men/#comment-62928</link>
		<dc:creator>Mike Riccardi</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 10 May 2010 22:48:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thegospelcoalition.org/blogs/justintaylor/?p=9672#comment-62928</guid>
		<description>pduggie, Aaron,

One of the points MacArthur makes in his excellent treatment of the parable (see A Tale of Two Sons, or MacArthur&#039;s 2006 Shepherds&#039; Conference message) is that the literary structure of this type of Jewish story unbalanced. Structurally, it would seem that Jesus left off the ending to the story. He then posits that the ending is supplied to the story by the actual events of history: the older brother (Pharisees, rulers, chief priests) beats the father to death (the crucifixion).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>pduggie, Aaron,</p>
<p>One of the points MacArthur makes in his excellent treatment of the parable (see A Tale of Two Sons, or MacArthur&#8217;s 2006 Shepherds&#8217; Conference message) is that the literary structure of this type of Jewish story unbalanced. Structurally, it would seem that Jesus left off the ending to the story. He then posits that the ending is supplied to the story by the actual events of history: the older brother (Pharisees, rulers, chief priests) beats the father to death (the crucifixion).</p>
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		<title>By: Bruce Russell</title>
		<link>http://thegospelcoalition.org/blogs/justintaylor/2010/05/10/c-s-lewis-three-kinds-of-men/#comment-62898</link>
		<dc:creator>Bruce Russell</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 10 May 2010 17:25:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thegospelcoalition.org/blogs/justintaylor/?p=9672#comment-62898</guid>
		<description>Something seems wrong about this post.

Perhaps the way the Old Testament imagery is abstracted away and replaced with concepts like &quot;Moral Effort.&quot;  

Note in Ephesians believers live between Promise and Inheritance.  In between those great events salvation consists in the Holy Spirit enabling us to walk in the way of life that is consistent with both.

Because they have removed the Old Covenant narrative and replaced it with abstract concepts of merit and grace, they really miss the true meaning of the Law Court.

I also think that Pastors who preach like this must refer a lot of people professional counseling services.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Something seems wrong about this post.</p>
<p>Perhaps the way the Old Testament imagery is abstracted away and replaced with concepts like &#8220;Moral Effort.&#8221;  </p>
<p>Note in Ephesians believers live between Promise and Inheritance.  In between those great events salvation consists in the Holy Spirit enabling us to walk in the way of life that is consistent with both.</p>
<p>Because they have removed the Old Covenant narrative and replaced it with abstract concepts of merit and grace, they really miss the true meaning of the Law Court.</p>
<p>I also think that Pastors who preach like this must refer a lot of people professional counseling services.</p>
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		<title>By: Aaron</title>
		<link>http://thegospelcoalition.org/blogs/justintaylor/2010/05/10/c-s-lewis-three-kinds-of-men/#comment-62885</link>
		<dc:creator>Aaron</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 10 May 2010 15:10:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thegospelcoalition.org/blogs/justintaylor/?p=9672#comment-62885</guid>
		<description>I think that what&#039;s being missed in some of the comments above is the idea of process or progress.  Many of us are the &quot;2nd type &quot; of man who are hopefully being changed and moving towards the &quot;3rd type&quot;.   Let&#039;s give people the opportunity to grow and search.  The sermon on the mount is calling people to walk in a new way with and towards Jesus.  I&quot;m not speaking of justification here, but sanctification.  

Same thing with the older brother, was he condemned?. . .Well, if he wasn&#039;t repentant for his attitudes, than perhaps he was.  That would perhaps have shown that he wasn&#039;t ever justified.   (not trying to read too much into a parable)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think that what&#8217;s being missed in some of the comments above is the idea of process or progress.  Many of us are the &#8220;2nd type &#8221; of man who are hopefully being changed and moving towards the &#8220;3rd type&#8221;.   Let&#8217;s give people the opportunity to grow and search.  The sermon on the mount is calling people to walk in a new way with and towards Jesus.  I&#8221;m not speaking of justification here, but sanctification.  </p>
<p>Same thing with the older brother, was he condemned?. . .Well, if he wasn&#8217;t repentant for his attitudes, than perhaps he was.  That would perhaps have shown that he wasn&#8217;t ever justified.   (not trying to read too much into a parable)</p>
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		<title>By: pduggie</title>
		<link>http://thegospelcoalition.org/blogs/justintaylor/2010/05/10/c-s-lewis-three-kinds-of-men/#comment-62881</link>
		<dc:creator>pduggie</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 10 May 2010 14:58:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thegospelcoalition.org/blogs/justintaylor/?p=9672#comment-62881</guid>
		<description>a bit of a tangent, but why is the older brother in the parable &quot;lost&quot;. Doesn&#039;t he have a loving father in the parable? Doesn&#039;t his father actually give him everything? Doesn&#039;t he still have his inheritance?

Will the father of the parable actually throw out the older brother over a bit of stingyness?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>a bit of a tangent, but why is the older brother in the parable &#8220;lost&#8221;. Doesn&#8217;t he have a loving father in the parable? Doesn&#8217;t his father actually give him everything? Doesn&#8217;t he still have his inheritance?</p>
<p>Will the father of the parable actually throw out the older brother over a bit of stingyness?</p>
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		<title>By: J.Clark</title>
		<link>http://thegospelcoalition.org/blogs/justintaylor/2010/05/10/c-s-lewis-three-kinds-of-men/#comment-62877</link>
		<dc:creator>J.Clark</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 10 May 2010 14:15:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thegospelcoalition.org/blogs/justintaylor/?p=9672#comment-62877</guid>
		<description>I was just about to say what a genius Lewis was.  And so I will, &quot;Lewis is a genius.&quot;  He always makes me &quot;get it.&quot;  And that is his genius.  He is telling us a parable not contradicting Jesus.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I was just about to say what a genius Lewis was.  And so I will, &#8220;Lewis is a genius.&#8221;  He always makes me &#8220;get it.&#8221;  And that is his genius.  He is telling us a parable not contradicting Jesus.</p>
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		<title>By: David Dorr</title>
		<link>http://thegospelcoalition.org/blogs/justintaylor/2010/05/10/c-s-lewis-three-kinds-of-men/#comment-62875</link>
		<dc:creator>David Dorr</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 10 May 2010 14:10:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thegospelcoalition.org/blogs/justintaylor/?p=9672#comment-62875</guid>
		<description>&quot;The world is so built that, to help us desert our own satisfactions, they desert us.&quot;

Man that&#039;s a beautiful sentence...very helpful on a Monday morning :)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;The world is so built that, to help us desert our own satisfactions, they desert us.&#8221;</p>
<p>Man that&#8217;s a beautiful sentence&#8230;very helpful on a Monday morning :)</p>
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		<title>By: Justin Taylor</title>
		<link>http://thegospelcoalition.org/blogs/justintaylor/2010/05/10/c-s-lewis-three-kinds-of-men/#comment-62874</link>
		<dc:creator>Justin Taylor</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 10 May 2010 14:07:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thegospelcoalition.org/blogs/justintaylor/?p=9672#comment-62874</guid>
		<description>Jeff,

I think it&#039;s a helpful point that Keller and Lewis can be misunderstood in this way—but to be sure, it&#039;s definitely a misunderstanding. 

Perhaps it&#039;s helpful to think of it this way: there are two ways to live: for God and against God, the narrow gate and the wide gate. But on the anti-God path there are two lanes: rebellion by rule-keeping and rebellion by rule-breaking. 

My experience is that framing it this way is actually &lt;i&gt;more&lt;/i&gt; convicting, not less, for the moralistic &quot;older brother&quot; types. I know that I struggle along these lines.

Blessings,
JT</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Jeff,</p>
<p>I think it&#8217;s a helpful point that Keller and Lewis can be misunderstood in this way—but to be sure, it&#8217;s definitely a misunderstanding. </p>
<p>Perhaps it&#8217;s helpful to think of it this way: there are two ways to live: for God and against God, the narrow gate and the wide gate. But on the anti-God path there are two lanes: rebellion by rule-keeping and rebellion by rule-breaking. </p>
<p>My experience is that framing it this way is actually <i>more</i> convicting, not less, for the moralistic &#8220;older brother&#8221; types. I know that I struggle along these lines.</p>
<p>Blessings,<br />
JT</p>
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		<title>By: Chris Haines</title>
		<link>http://thegospelcoalition.org/blogs/justintaylor/2010/05/10/c-s-lewis-three-kinds-of-men/#comment-62870</link>
		<dc:creator>Chris Haines</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 10 May 2010 12:26:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thegospelcoalition.org/blogs/justintaylor/?p=9672#comment-62870</guid>
		<description>Jeff

I believe Lewis &amp; Kaller agree with your sentiments. They are not trying to make &quot;moral&quot; people better than they are. Indeed, quite the opposite. They are saying there are two ways to be lost. This is helpful because it exposes the self-righteousness and moral bankruptcy of the &quot;elder brother&quot;. Which is exactly your point.

So the point Lewis is making is not that the second kind of man is &quot;half-good&quot;; but that the only true way to salvation (and indeed happiness) is not morality after all, but a whole new way altogether... the gospel way.

Dane is right in saying that Jesus doesn&#039;t even address the first group of people (the &quot;younger brothers&quot;). The whole point of his sermon is to undermine the Pharisees moralism.

I hope you can see that both Keller &amp; Lewis are not disagreeing with the Word of God and Christ in these insights.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Jeff</p>
<p>I believe Lewis &amp; Kaller agree with your sentiments. They are not trying to make &#8220;moral&#8221; people better than they are. Indeed, quite the opposite. They are saying there are two ways to be lost. This is helpful because it exposes the self-righteousness and moral bankruptcy of the &#8220;elder brother&#8221;. Which is exactly your point.</p>
<p>So the point Lewis is making is not that the second kind of man is &#8220;half-good&#8221;; but that the only true way to salvation (and indeed happiness) is not morality after all, but a whole new way altogether&#8230; the gospel way.</p>
<p>Dane is right in saying that Jesus doesn&#8217;t even address the first group of people (the &#8220;younger brothers&#8221;). The whole point of his sermon is to undermine the Pharisees moralism.</p>
<p>I hope you can see that both Keller &amp; Lewis are not disagreeing with the Word of God and Christ in these insights.</p>
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		<title>By: Dane</title>
		<link>http://thegospelcoalition.org/blogs/justintaylor/2010/05/10/c-s-lewis-three-kinds-of-men/#comment-62869</link>
		<dc:creator>Dane</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 10 May 2010 12:14:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thegospelcoalition.org/blogs/justintaylor/?p=9672#comment-62869</guid>
		<description>Jeff, I wonder if Jesus in the Sermon on the Mount, in essence if not in language, is contrasting Lewis&#039; 2nd and 3rd kind of person? I.e. he contrasts not right vs wrong but 2 ways to do the right thing: not praying vs. not praying, but praying ostentatiously vs praying in the closet; not generosity vs. greed but generosity for show vs secret/real generosity; etc. It seems that even Jesus implicitly has 3 moral gears in mind (if we add the outright rebellion that Jesus leaves out). 

Thanks for your comment brother.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Jeff, I wonder if Jesus in the Sermon on the Mount, in essence if not in language, is contrasting Lewis&#8217; 2nd and 3rd kind of person? I.e. he contrasts not right vs wrong but 2 ways to do the right thing: not praying vs. not praying, but praying ostentatiously vs praying in the closet; not generosity vs. greed but generosity for show vs secret/real generosity; etc. It seems that even Jesus implicitly has 3 moral gears in mind (if we add the outright rebellion that Jesus leaves out). </p>
<p>Thanks for your comment brother.</p>
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		<title>By: Jeff</title>
		<link>http://thegospelcoalition.org/blogs/justintaylor/2010/05/10/c-s-lewis-three-kinds-of-men/#comment-62868</link>
		<dc:creator>Jeff</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 10 May 2010 11:59:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thegospelcoalition.org/blogs/justintaylor/?p=9672#comment-62868</guid>
		<description>I was having coffee with a brother that has fallen for this rhetoric that Keller and Lewis have espoused, namely that there are &quot;three kinds of men.&quot; It seems like a good idea; it appeals to our sense of fair play; it makes us appear as better than we really are. Isn&#039;t this the heart of our depravity? Making attempts through our own efforts and relativistic evaluations to increase our status before men and the throne of God? 

Lewis is absolutely correct in saying, &quot;any merely twofold division of the world into good and bad is disastrous.&quot; It is disastrous to the egos of men; to their idols; to their evaluation of their goodness; to their very effort to find some redeeming quality in their lives apart from the work of Christ. 

To say that there are three kinds of men is to disagree with the Word of God and Christ. Christ makes it clear in many places, but especially at the end of the Sermon on the Mount: there are two paths; two gates; the many and the few; two trees; two fruits; two men; two houses; two foundations; and two outcomes. Christ tells the parable of two brothers, and note that neither was righteous-one was worldly and the older brother was just as lost because he trusted in his work. Finally, Christ goes on to tell the tale of the Publican and the Pharisee.

The problem is the so called &quot;second kind of man&quot; is just like the first &quot;kind of man&quot;, he just can&#039;t see it because his eyes have been blinded by the ruler of this world. The call for us as we proclaim the Gospel is to challenge these strongholds with the truth of God&#039;s Word and by the convicting power of the Holy Spirit, until men see their utter depravity and helplessness and cast themselves on Christ.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I was having coffee with a brother that has fallen for this rhetoric that Keller and Lewis have espoused, namely that there are &#8220;three kinds of men.&#8221; It seems like a good idea; it appeals to our sense of fair play; it makes us appear as better than we really are. Isn&#8217;t this the heart of our depravity? Making attempts through our own efforts and relativistic evaluations to increase our status before men and the throne of God? </p>
<p>Lewis is absolutely correct in saying, &#8220;any merely twofold division of the world into good and bad is disastrous.&#8221; It is disastrous to the egos of men; to their idols; to their evaluation of their goodness; to their very effort to find some redeeming quality in their lives apart from the work of Christ. </p>
<p>To say that there are three kinds of men is to disagree with the Word of God and Christ. Christ makes it clear in many places, but especially at the end of the Sermon on the Mount: there are two paths; two gates; the many and the few; two trees; two fruits; two men; two houses; two foundations; and two outcomes. Christ tells the parable of two brothers, and note that neither was righteous-one was worldly and the older brother was just as lost because he trusted in his work. Finally, Christ goes on to tell the tale of the Publican and the Pharisee.</p>
<p>The problem is the so called &#8220;second kind of man&#8221; is just like the first &#8220;kind of man&#8221;, he just can&#8217;t see it because his eyes have been blinded by the ruler of this world. The call for us as we proclaim the Gospel is to challenge these strongholds with the truth of God&#8217;s Word and by the convicting power of the Holy Spirit, until men see their utter depravity and helplessness and cast themselves on Christ.</p>
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		<title>By: Just give up! &#171; Bible In Two Years</title>
		<link>http://thegospelcoalition.org/blogs/justintaylor/2010/05/10/c-s-lewis-three-kinds-of-men/#comment-62866</link>
		<dc:creator>Just give up! &#171; Bible In Two Years</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 10 May 2010 09:40:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thegospelcoalition.org/blogs/justintaylor/?p=9672#comment-62866</guid>
		<description>[...] found this post very useful as it relates to the disciplines (such as study of God&#8217;s word) which we are [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] found this post very useful as it relates to the disciplines (such as study of God&#8217;s word) which we are [...]</p>
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