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	<title>Comments on: Martin Marty on Religion and the Norway Shooting</title>
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	<link>http://thegospelcoalition.org/blogs/justintaylor/2011/08/01/martin-marty-on-religion-and-the-norway-shooting/</link>
	<description>Between Two Worlds</description>
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		<title>By: John R.</title>
		<link>http://thegospelcoalition.org/blogs/justintaylor/2011/08/01/martin-marty-on-religion-and-the-norway-shooting/#comment-88218</link>
		<dc:creator>John R.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 02 Aug 2011 22:05:30 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>I&#039;ve read the article four times and have concluded that Marty, while citing some interesting facts along the way, really has no point.He begins by arguing that Breivik (and the others) were most likely not Lutheran or even Christian in any meaningful sense. So far, so good.

He then seems to want to argue that a terrorist killer is just as likely to be a Lutheran as a Muslim. This after he&#039;s argued that the &quot;Lutheran&quot; killers weren&#039;t really Lutheran. To put it in the vernacular, &quot;huh&quot;? Marty&#039;s own argument is that these nominal &quot;Lutherans&quot; were not really Lutherans. But what point is there to extrapolate from that regarding Western views of Islamic terrorism? In his zeal to be politically correct, Marty loses whatever slim point he might have been making. 

In the list of &quot;Lutheran&quot; serial killers and mass-murderers he cites, nobody has even alleged a religious motive for their actions. Their nominal &quot;Lutheranism&quot; was completely ancillary to their actions. (Breivik may arguably be an exception, but Marty himself actually dismisses this.) But can one say the same about Islamic terrorism? Of course not. As the French say, it is to laugh. Islam is not *ancillary* to Islamic terrorism. In fact, it&#039;s essential.

Citing Lee Harvey Oswald&#039;s and Sirhan Sirhan&#039;s &quot;Lutheranism&quot; in regards to the murders they committed is like making a list of killers who regularly wore khakis. Undoubtedly many of them did, but so what? One has nothing to do with the other. To argue either that &quot;a pox be on both their houses&quot; or that any act of terrorism is just as likely to have been committed by a &quot;Lutheran&quot; as by a radical Muslim betrays a rather pitiful kind of moral relativism and sociological ignorance.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;ve read the article four times and have concluded that Marty, while citing some interesting facts along the way, really has no point.He begins by arguing that Breivik (and the others) were most likely not Lutheran or even Christian in any meaningful sense. So far, so good.</p>
<p>He then seems to want to argue that a terrorist killer is just as likely to be a Lutheran as a Muslim. This after he&#8217;s argued that the &#8220;Lutheran&#8221; killers weren&#8217;t really Lutheran. To put it in the vernacular, &#8220;huh&#8221;? Marty&#8217;s own argument is that these nominal &#8220;Lutherans&#8221; were not really Lutherans. But what point is there to extrapolate from that regarding Western views of Islamic terrorism? In his zeal to be politically correct, Marty loses whatever slim point he might have been making. </p>
<p>In the list of &#8220;Lutheran&#8221; serial killers and mass-murderers he cites, nobody has even alleged a religious motive for their actions. Their nominal &#8220;Lutheranism&#8221; was completely ancillary to their actions. (Breivik may arguably be an exception, but Marty himself actually dismisses this.) But can one say the same about Islamic terrorism? Of course not. As the French say, it is to laugh. Islam is not *ancillary* to Islamic terrorism. In fact, it&#8217;s essential.</p>
<p>Citing Lee Harvey Oswald&#8217;s and Sirhan Sirhan&#8217;s &#8220;Lutheranism&#8221; in regards to the murders they committed is like making a list of killers who regularly wore khakis. Undoubtedly many of them did, but so what? One has nothing to do with the other. To argue either that &#8220;a pox be on both their houses&#8221; or that any act of terrorism is just as likely to have been committed by a &#8220;Lutheran&#8221; as by a radical Muslim betrays a rather pitiful kind of moral relativism and sociological ignorance.</p>
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		<title>By: Truth Unites... and Divides</title>
		<link>http://thegospelcoalition.org/blogs/justintaylor/2011/08/01/martin-marty-on-religion-and-the-norway-shooting/#comment-88177</link>
		<dc:creator>Truth Unites... and Divides</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 01 Aug 2011 19:25:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thegospelcoalition.org/blogs/justintaylor/?p=17150#comment-88177</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;&quot;That, TUaD, is because literally speaking they were/are not. It has been used as a convenient label.&quot;&lt;/i&gt;

Why did Dr. Martin E. Marty answer that they were all Lutheran Christians?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>&#8220;That, TUaD, is because literally speaking they were/are not. It has been used as a convenient label.&#8221;</i></p>
<p>Why did Dr. Martin E. Marty answer that they were all Lutheran Christians?</p>
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		<title>By: Glenn</title>
		<link>http://thegospelcoalition.org/blogs/justintaylor/2011/08/01/martin-marty-on-religion-and-the-norway-shooting/#comment-88176</link>
		<dc:creator>Glenn</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 01 Aug 2011 19:21:44 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>That, TUaD, is because literally speaking they were/are not. It has been used as a convenient label. 

Like &#039;Church of England&#039; when most who give that definition for themselves only see the inside of a Church building when they get married, christened and buried (if then).

It is also like the labels &#039;Catholic&#039; &amp; &#039;Protestant&#039; in Northern Ireland. Most of these people give themselves the label because of the family they are born into, but they are not Christian or practicing a Christian faith.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>That, TUaD, is because literally speaking they were/are not. It has been used as a convenient label. </p>
<p>Like &#8216;Church of England&#8217; when most who give that definition for themselves only see the inside of a Church building when they get married, christened and buried (if then).</p>
<p>It is also like the labels &#8216;Catholic&#8217; &amp; &#8216;Protestant&#8217; in Northern Ireland. Most of these people give themselves the label because of the family they are born into, but they are not Christian or practicing a Christian faith.</p>
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		<title>By: Truth Unites... and Divides</title>
		<link>http://thegospelcoalition.org/blogs/justintaylor/2011/08/01/martin-marty-on-religion-and-the-norway-shooting/#comment-88171</link>
		<dc:creator>Truth Unites... and Divides</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 01 Aug 2011 15:14:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thegospelcoalition.org/blogs/justintaylor/?p=17150#comment-88171</guid>
		<description>I had not known that all these mass murderers were Lutheran Christians.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I had not known that all these mass murderers were Lutheran Christians.</p>
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		<title>By: Bill Haynes</title>
		<link>http://thegospelcoalition.org/blogs/justintaylor/2011/08/01/martin-marty-on-religion-and-the-norway-shooting/#comment-88169</link>
		<dc:creator>Bill Haynes</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 01 Aug 2011 14:58:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thegospelcoalition.org/blogs/justintaylor/?p=17150#comment-88169</guid>
		<description>Perhaps Marty is half right . . . they were Lutherans by affiliation. Christians? I think not!!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Perhaps Marty is half right . . . they were Lutherans by affiliation. Christians? I think not!!</p>
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