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	<title>Comments on: Walking With Jesus as a Former Catholic</title>
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	<link>http://thegospelcoalition.org/blogs/kevindeyoung/2009/10/16/walking-with-jesus-as-a-former-catholic/</link>
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		<title>By: Dale Matcheck</title>
		<link>http://thegospelcoalition.org/blogs/kevindeyoung/2009/10/16/walking-with-jesus-as-a-former-catholic/comment-page-1/#comment-7240</link>
		<dc:creator>Dale Matcheck</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 17 Aug 2010 13:54:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thegospelcoalition.org/blogs/kevindeyoung/?p=280#comment-7240</guid>
		<description>The book&#039;s title is misleading.  By calling himself a &quot;former-Catholic&quot; he implies that at one time he understood and practiced the Catholic faith, neither of which appears to be the case.  For a perspective on this book you might want to take a look at this review from a protestant convert to Catholicism: http://crossed-the-tiber.blogspot.com/2010/07/continuing-review-of-holy-ground-by.html</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The book&#8217;s title is misleading.  By calling himself a &#8220;former-Catholic&#8221; he implies that at one time he understood and practiced the Catholic faith, neither of which appears to be the case.  For a perspective on this book you might want to take a look at this review from a protestant convert to Catholicism: <a href="http://crossed-the-tiber.blogspot.com/2010/07/continuing-review-of-holy-ground-by.html" rel="nofollow">http://crossed-the-tiber.blogspot.com/2010/07/continuing-review-of-holy-ground-by.html</a></p>
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		<title>By: More on Evangelicals and Catholics &#8211; Kevin DeYoung</title>
		<link>http://thegospelcoalition.org/blogs/kevindeyoung/2009/10/16/walking-with-jesus-as-a-former-catholic/comment-page-1/#comment-2412</link>
		<dc:creator>More on Evangelicals and Catholics &#8211; Kevin DeYoung</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 21 Nov 2009 12:48:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thegospelcoalition.org/blogs/kevindeyoung/?p=280#comment-2412</guid>
		<description>[...] Doug Phillips (not the one from Vision Forum) has a great interview with Chris Castaldo.  Chris, as you may remember, has a new book Holy Ground: Walking With Jesus as a Former Catholic.  I blogged about the book here. [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Doug Phillips (not the one from Vision Forum) has a great interview with Chris Castaldo.  Chris, as you may remember, has a new book Holy Ground: Walking With Jesus as a Former Catholic.  I blogged about the book here. [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Aaron</title>
		<link>http://thegospelcoalition.org/blogs/kevindeyoung/2009/10/16/walking-with-jesus-as-a-former-catholic/comment-page-1/#comment-1849</link>
		<dc:creator>Aaron</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 19 Oct 2009 22:23:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thegospelcoalition.org/blogs/kevindeyoung/?p=280#comment-1849</guid>
		<description>per your last sentence sir Vogt. sincerely. 
 
&quot;Protestant practices and results (such as ‘personal relationship’, ‘direct access’, freedom, joy, etc.) are hazy reflections of Catholic ideals.&quot;

I believe protestant practices and results (such as ....) are reflections of our love for what Jesus the Christ did on the cross and especially what He did 3 days later according to scripture.(resurrection) And for me personally, what He continues to accomplish in and through my life. 

none of which has anything to do with Catholic ideals. 

and I pray will never ever be an ideal from any religion or occult.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>per your last sentence sir Vogt. sincerely. </p>
<p>&#8220;Protestant practices and results (such as ‘personal relationship’, ‘direct access’, freedom, joy, etc.) are hazy reflections of Catholic ideals.&#8221;</p>
<p>I believe protestant practices and results (such as &#8230;.) are reflections of our love for what Jesus the Christ did on the cross and especially what He did 3 days later according to scripture.(resurrection) And for me personally, what He continues to accomplish in and through my life. </p>
<p>none of which has anything to do with Catholic ideals. </p>
<p>and I pray will never ever be an ideal from any religion or occult.</p>
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		<title>By: Brandon Vogt</title>
		<link>http://thegospelcoalition.org/blogs/kevindeyoung/2009/10/16/walking-with-jesus-as-a-former-catholic/comment-page-1/#comment-1842</link>
		<dc:creator>Brandon Vogt</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 19 Oct 2009 20:44:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thegospelcoalition.org/blogs/kevindeyoung/?p=280#comment-1842</guid>
		<description>1. Ex-Catholics appreciate an every-member ministry where all Christians are called to full-time service.  

I question the source of this belief; did you get it from the Church or from nominal Catholics? The words the Church--specifically those of the Vatican II documents--are filled with proclamations that every person is called to full-time holiness and service. I&#039;m not really sure what you mean by &#039;every-member ministry&#039; or &#039;full-time service&#039;. Catholics are called to both, yet each is beckoned to a distinct role. Not every Protestant is called to be a pastor or a worship leader; not every Catholic is called to be a priest or religious. But not every person is called to be a lay member, which every bit the holiness and service of a religious vocation. You’re suffering from the same false belief that many Catholics fall prey to and that Paul again and again fought, namely that religious vocations are no less holy than lay callings. But they are different.

2. Ex-Catholics are drawn to a personal relationship with Jesus that is more than just rule-keeping.  

Again I would love to question your source to this reported belief. Catholicism is a faith of more than ‘just rule-keeping’. I assume you’ve acquired that belief from a poorly-formed—or ignorant—Catholic. You’re again setting up a straw man. The greatest Catholics of all time—namely the Saints—have had some of the intimate encounters with Jesus. People like Catherine of Sienna and Teresa of Avila exemplify personal relationships with Jesus that sink to incredible depths. This is what the Church calls us to. If you read any of John Paul II’s Theology of the Body you’ll dive into the most intimate encounters of Christ: the spousal relationship between Jesus and His Bride, between us and the Lord. 

In regards to the ‘rules’ they are the same that a good parent gives to aid a child in growth. ‘Go to Mass’ and ‘Go to confession’ are not arbitrary. They are there for our own growth and holiness just as ‘Don’t do drugs’ and ‘Don’t sleep around’ are. The Church’s rules flow from the same rules that God has been giving even before he became incarnate; He chose to give rules to the ancient Israelites to help them along the way of holiness. Until you see the possibility of rules and guidelines as ‘blessings’ and not ‘hindrances’ this will not make sense.

Many Catholics are blind to the relationship and only see the rules that point to it. This is a fault of formation. But this is not flawed Catholicism; these are flawed Catholics. 

3. Ex-Catholic evangelicals enjoy the direct access they have to God through Christ, without the need of any other intermediary.  

This is an age-old debate that I believe you’ve talked about in the past on your blog. Beyond all of the historical arguments, I ask one question. Why do you blog? Why do you teach? I assume it’s to become a conduit to God; one who points the way to Him; one who reveals His glory. Why do you ask others to pray for you? Why do we read spiritual books? Every single word you write or speak—and every single person you ‘speak’ to is not Jesus—but they all point to Him or link to Him. Mother Teresa saw the face of Jesus in everyone, so she helped everyone, but also prayed directly to God (for hours each day). I hear the words of God in my mentors so I talk to them, but not solely to them. I pray solely to God. But it’s hypocrisy if you claim that ‘direct access’ to God is the only way when all of our days are filled with intermediaries. 

The Church teaches that all of these sources—including the Sacraments—invite us closer to God. They aren’t the only ways, but they are other ways.

4. Ex-Catholics have come to see that only proper object of our devotion is Jesus Christ, not Mary or the saints.  

Again, why do you write about Luther, or Calvin, Mohler, Piper, or whoever? They are men who point you most clearly to God. They are men who inspire you to grow closer to Jesus. The Saints are the same. Catholics are devoted to them the same way you are to your greatest influences. Mary is also held in high regard. It’s a shame that Protestants have rejected her honor, though that is slowly changing back to how it originally was for the first millennium after Christ. She birthed God. I am curious how you handle the typography found in the Bible regarding Mary; particularly the Woman in Revelation. 

5. Ex-Catholics feel new freedom and joy in the salvation-by-grace-alone-through-faith-alone gospel that is championed in evangelical circles.

Two things: first these words suggest, to me anyways, that Catholicism is repressing while Evangelicalism is liberating, which I suppose is true for those who were never really Catholic in the first place. I again am forced to believe you have limited experience with well-formed Catholics who are living a free and joyous life. Second, 

I remember reading your posts on the Eucharist, which I thought was decently fair in it’s presentation of Catholic beliefs. You seem to understand both sides and clearly laid out the differences. So I’m more inclined to believe that the above five statements are more a reflection of the books author’s flawed beliefs of Catholicism than your own.

But they are flawed. They do, however, form a great straw man. To paraphrase Chesterton, “The Catholic ideal has not been tried and found wanting. It has been found difficult and left untried.” One of the terrible shames in ecumenical relations is Evangelical image of Catholicism gained from nominal Catholics (and the opposite is true; so many Catholics wrongfully reject many wonderful gems within Protestantism).

As a Protestant convert to Catholicism, though, I can say through my experience that the best parts of Protestantism are fully realized through the Catholic Church. Protestant practices and results (such as &#039;personal relationship&#039;, &#039;direct access&#039;, freedom, joy, etc.) are hazy reflections of Catholic ideals.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>1. Ex-Catholics appreciate an every-member ministry where all Christians are called to full-time service.  </p>
<p>I question the source of this belief; did you get it from the Church or from nominal Catholics? The words the Church&#8211;specifically those of the Vatican II documents&#8211;are filled with proclamations that every person is called to full-time holiness and service. I&#8217;m not really sure what you mean by &#8216;every-member ministry&#8217; or &#8216;full-time service&#8217;. Catholics are called to both, yet each is beckoned to a distinct role. Not every Protestant is called to be a pastor or a worship leader; not every Catholic is called to be a priest or religious. But not every person is called to be a lay member, which every bit the holiness and service of a religious vocation. You’re suffering from the same false belief that many Catholics fall prey to and that Paul again and again fought, namely that religious vocations are no less holy than lay callings. But they are different.</p>
<p>2. Ex-Catholics are drawn to a personal relationship with Jesus that is more than just rule-keeping.  </p>
<p>Again I would love to question your source to this reported belief. Catholicism is a faith of more than ‘just rule-keeping’. I assume you’ve acquired that belief from a poorly-formed—or ignorant—Catholic. You’re again setting up a straw man. The greatest Catholics of all time—namely the Saints—have had some of the intimate encounters with Jesus. People like Catherine of Sienna and Teresa of Avila exemplify personal relationships with Jesus that sink to incredible depths. This is what the Church calls us to. If you read any of John Paul II’s Theology of the Body you’ll dive into the most intimate encounters of Christ: the spousal relationship between Jesus and His Bride, between us and the Lord. </p>
<p>In regards to the ‘rules’ they are the same that a good parent gives to aid a child in growth. ‘Go to Mass’ and ‘Go to confession’ are not arbitrary. They are there for our own growth and holiness just as ‘Don’t do drugs’ and ‘Don’t sleep around’ are. The Church’s rules flow from the same rules that God has been giving even before he became incarnate; He chose to give rules to the ancient Israelites to help them along the way of holiness. Until you see the possibility of rules and guidelines as ‘blessings’ and not ‘hindrances’ this will not make sense.</p>
<p>Many Catholics are blind to the relationship and only see the rules that point to it. This is a fault of formation. But this is not flawed Catholicism; these are flawed Catholics. </p>
<p>3. Ex-Catholic evangelicals enjoy the direct access they have to God through Christ, without the need of any other intermediary.  </p>
<p>This is an age-old debate that I believe you’ve talked about in the past on your blog. Beyond all of the historical arguments, I ask one question. Why do you blog? Why do you teach? I assume it’s to become a conduit to God; one who points the way to Him; one who reveals His glory. Why do you ask others to pray for you? Why do we read spiritual books? Every single word you write or speak—and every single person you ‘speak’ to is not Jesus—but they all point to Him or link to Him. Mother Teresa saw the face of Jesus in everyone, so she helped everyone, but also prayed directly to God (for hours each day). I hear the words of God in my mentors so I talk to them, but not solely to them. I pray solely to God. But it’s hypocrisy if you claim that ‘direct access’ to God is the only way when all of our days are filled with intermediaries. </p>
<p>The Church teaches that all of these sources—including the Sacraments—invite us closer to God. They aren’t the only ways, but they are other ways.</p>
<p>4. Ex-Catholics have come to see that only proper object of our devotion is Jesus Christ, not Mary or the saints.  </p>
<p>Again, why do you write about Luther, or Calvin, Mohler, Piper, or whoever? They are men who point you most clearly to God. They are men who inspire you to grow closer to Jesus. The Saints are the same. Catholics are devoted to them the same way you are to your greatest influences. Mary is also held in high regard. It’s a shame that Protestants have rejected her honor, though that is slowly changing back to how it originally was for the first millennium after Christ. She birthed God. I am curious how you handle the typography found in the Bible regarding Mary; particularly the Woman in Revelation. </p>
<p>5. Ex-Catholics feel new freedom and joy in the salvation-by-grace-alone-through-faith-alone gospel that is championed in evangelical circles.</p>
<p>Two things: first these words suggest, to me anyways, that Catholicism is repressing while Evangelicalism is liberating, which I suppose is true for those who were never really Catholic in the first place. I again am forced to believe you have limited experience with well-formed Catholics who are living a free and joyous life. Second, </p>
<p>I remember reading your posts on the Eucharist, which I thought was decently fair in it’s presentation of Catholic beliefs. You seem to understand both sides and clearly laid out the differences. So I’m more inclined to believe that the above five statements are more a reflection of the books author’s flawed beliefs of Catholicism than your own.</p>
<p>But they are flawed. They do, however, form a great straw man. To paraphrase Chesterton, “The Catholic ideal has not been tried and found wanting. It has been found difficult and left untried.” One of the terrible shames in ecumenical relations is Evangelical image of Catholicism gained from nominal Catholics (and the opposite is true; so many Catholics wrongfully reject many wonderful gems within Protestantism).</p>
<p>As a Protestant convert to Catholicism, though, I can say through my experience that the best parts of Protestantism are fully realized through the Catholic Church. Protestant practices and results (such as &#8216;personal relationship&#8217;, &#8216;direct access&#8217;, freedom, joy, etc.) are hazy reflections of Catholic ideals.</p>
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		<title>By: Cathy</title>
		<link>http://thegospelcoalition.org/blogs/kevindeyoung/2009/10/16/walking-with-jesus-as-a-former-catholic/comment-page-1/#comment-1806</link>
		<dc:creator>Cathy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 16 Oct 2009 17:15:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thegospelcoalition.org/blogs/kevindeyoung/?p=280#comment-1806</guid>
		<description>I love this post!!  My early education (until 4th grade) was in a Catholic school.  I remember learning that bad things happen to you as punishment from God!  Shortly after that, my mother died. I was ten.  It took years of therapy. ;)  Kidding!  But it was hard to deal with as  a child.  I must read this book!  BTW  I don&#039;t have an attic, so my rosary is in the big storage closet. :)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I love this post!!  My early education (until 4th grade) was in a Catholic school.  I remember learning that bad things happen to you as punishment from God!  Shortly after that, my mother died. I was ten.  It took years of therapy. <img src='http://thegospelcoalition.org/blogs/kevindeyoung/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif' alt=';)' class='wp-smiley' />   Kidding!  But it was hard to deal with as  a child.  I must read this book!  BTW  I don&#8217;t have an attic, so my rosary is in the big storage closet. <img src='http://thegospelcoalition.org/blogs/kevindeyoung/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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