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	<title>Comments on: Why I Changed My Mind About the Millennium</title>
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	<link>http://thegospelcoalition.org/blogs/tgc/2013/01/09/why-i-changed-my-mind-about-the-millennium/</link>
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		<title>By: Jack</title>
		<link>http://thegospelcoalition.org/blogs/tgc/2013/01/09/why-i-changed-my-mind-about-the-millennium/#comment-77044</link>
		<dc:creator>Jack</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 18 May 2013 18:47:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thegospelcoalition.org/blogs/tgc/?p=30090#comment-77044</guid>
		<description>See you there, Elder.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>See you there, Elder.</p>
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		<title>By: Jack</title>
		<link>http://thegospelcoalition.org/blogs/tgc/2013/01/09/why-i-changed-my-mind-about-the-millennium/#comment-77043</link>
		<dc:creator>Jack</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 18 May 2013 18:46:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thegospelcoalition.org/blogs/tgc/?p=30090#comment-77043</guid>
		<description>Thanks much, Adam, for your input. I give up trying to understand all this. It&#039;s too big and complex. But thank you much for trying to help me get the big picture.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks much, Adam, for your input. I give up trying to understand all this. It's too big and complex. But thank you much for trying to help me get the big picture.</p>
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		<title>By: Adam Maarschalk</title>
		<link>http://thegospelcoalition.org/blogs/tgc/2013/01/09/why-i-changed-my-mind-about-the-millennium/#comment-77027</link>
		<dc:creator>Adam Maarschalk</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 18 May 2013 15:08:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thegospelcoalition.org/blogs/tgc/?p=30090#comment-77027</guid>
		<description>Following up on my previous reply concerning Isaiah 65-66 and the new heavens and new earth, I&#039;d like to add some quotations from other respected leaders in church history who also viewed these things as describing this present new covenant age:

In a 1721 sermon, the Puritan preacher John Owen said,

&quot;I affirm that the heavens and earth here intended in this prophecy of Peter, the coming of the Lord, the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men, mentioned in the destruction of that heaven and earth, do all of them relate, not to the last and final judgment of the world, but to that utter desolation and destruction that was to be made of the Judaical church and state… [A]nd then the heavens and earth that God Himself planted, -the sun, moon, and stars of the Judaical polity and church, – the whole old world of worship and worshippers, that stand out in their obstinancy against the Lord Christ, shall be sensibly dissolved and destroyed: this we know shall be the end of these things, and that shortly.”

Jonathan Edwards (in 1739) said this in his work, “The Perpetuity and Change of the Sabbath, Vol. 2”:

&quot;The Scriptures further teach us to call the gospel-restoration and redemption, a creation of a new heaven and a new earth… The gospel state is everywhere spoken of as a renewed state of things, wherein old things are passed away, and all things become new… And the dissolution of the Jewish state was often spoken of in the Old Testament as the end of the world. But we who belong to the gospel-church, belong to the new creation; and therefore there seems to be at least as much reason, that we should commemorate the work of this creation, as that the members of the ancient Jewish church should commemorate the work of the old creation.&quot;

C.H. (Charles) Spurgeon also had the same understanding. In a sermon delivered in 1865 (Metropolitan Tabernacle Pulpit, Vo. XXXVII, p. 354), he said:

&quot;Did you ever regret the absence of the burnt-offering, or the red heifer, of any one of the sacrifices and rites of the Jews? Did you ever pine for the feast of tabernacle, or the dedication? No, because, though these were like the old heavens and earth to the Jewish believers, they have passed away and we now live under a new heavens and a new earth, so far as the dispensation of divine teaching is concerned. The substance is come, and the shadow has gone: and we do not remember it.&quot;

Here also is a very intriguing quote from the church father, Eusebius (265-340 AD), from one of his writings known as “the Theophania”:

&quot;All authorities concur in the declaration that “when all these things should have been done”, ‘The End’ should come: that “the mystery of God should be finished as he had declared to His servants the prophets“: it should be completed: time should now be no more: the End of all things (so foretold) should be at hand, and be fully brought to pass: in these days should be fulfilled all that had been spoken of Christ (and of His church) by the prophets: or, in other words, when the gospel should have been preached in all the world for a testimony to all nations, and the power of the Holy People be scattered (abroad), then should the End come, then should all these things be finished. I need now only say, all these things have been done: the old and elementary system passed away with a great noise; all these predicted empires have actually fallen, and the new kingdom, the new heaven and earth, the new Jerusalem–all of which were to descend from God, to be formed by His power, have been realised on earth; all these things have been done in the sight of all the nations; God’s holy arm has been made bare in their sight: His judgments have prevailed, and they remain for an everlasting testimony to the whole world. His kingdom has come, as it was foretold it should, and His will has, so far, been done; His purposes have been finished; and, from that day to the extreme end of time, it will be the duty, as indeed it will be the great privilege of the Church, to gather into its bosom the Jew, the Greek, the Scythian, the Barbarian, bond and free; and to do this as the Apostles did in their days–in obedience, faith and hope.&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Following up on my previous reply concerning Isaiah 65-66 and the new heavens and new earth, I'd like to add some quotations from other respected leaders in church history who also viewed these things as describing this present new covenant age:</p>
<p>In a 1721 sermon, the Puritan preacher John Owen said,</p>
<p>"I affirm that the heavens and earth here intended in this prophecy of Peter, the coming of the Lord, the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men, mentioned in the destruction of that heaven and earth, do all of them relate, not to the last and final judgment of the world, but to that utter desolation and destruction that was to be made of the Judaical church and state… [A]nd then the heavens and earth that God Himself planted, -the sun, moon, and stars of the Judaical polity and church, – the whole old world of worship and worshippers, that stand out in their obstinancy against the Lord Christ, shall be sensibly dissolved and destroyed: this we know shall be the end of these things, and that shortly.”</p>
<p>Jonathan Edwards (in 1739) said this in his work, “The Perpetuity and Change of the Sabbath, Vol. 2”:</p>
<p>"The Scriptures further teach us to call the gospel-restoration and redemption, a creation of a new heaven and a new earth… The gospel state is everywhere spoken of as a renewed state of things, wherein old things are passed away, and all things become new… And the dissolution of the Jewish state was often spoken of in the Old Testament as the end of the world. But we who belong to the gospel-church, belong to the new creation; and therefore there seems to be at least as much reason, that we should commemorate the work of this creation, as that the members of the ancient Jewish church should commemorate the work of the old creation."</p>
<p>C.H. (Charles) Spurgeon also had the same understanding. In a sermon delivered in 1865 (Metropolitan Tabernacle Pulpit, Vo. XXXVII, p. 354), he said:</p>
<p>"Did you ever regret the absence of the burnt-offering, or the red heifer, of any one of the sacrifices and rites of the Jews? Did you ever pine for the feast of tabernacle, or the dedication? No, because, though these were like the old heavens and earth to the Jewish believers, they have passed away and we now live under a new heavens and a new earth, so far as the dispensation of divine teaching is concerned. The substance is come, and the shadow has gone: and we do not remember it."</p>
<p>Here also is a very intriguing quote from the church father, Eusebius (265-340 AD), from one of his writings known as “the Theophania”:</p>
<p>"All authorities concur in the declaration that “when all these things should have been done”, ‘The End’ should come: that “the mystery of God should be finished as he had declared to His servants the prophets“: it should be completed: time should now be no more: the End of all things (so foretold) should be at hand, and be fully brought to pass: in these days should be fulfilled all that had been spoken of Christ (and of His church) by the prophets: or, in other words, when the gospel should have been preached in all the world for a testimony to all nations, and the power of the Holy People be scattered (abroad), then should the End come, then should all these things be finished. I need now only say, all these things have been done: the old and elementary system passed away with a great noise; all these predicted empires have actually fallen, and the new kingdom, the new heaven and earth, the new Jerusalem–all of which were to descend from God, to be formed by His power, have been realised on earth; all these things have been done in the sight of all the nations; God’s holy arm has been made bare in their sight: His judgments have prevailed, and they remain for an everlasting testimony to the whole world. His kingdom has come, as it was foretold it should, and His will has, so far, been done; His purposes have been finished; and, from that day to the extreme end of time, it will be the duty, as indeed it will be the great privilege of the Church, to gather into its bosom the Jew, the Greek, the Scythian, the Barbarian, bond and free; and to do this as the Apostles did in their days–in obedience, faith and hope."</p>
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		<title>By: Adam Maarschalk</title>
		<link>http://thegospelcoalition.org/blogs/tgc/2013/01/09/why-i-changed-my-mind-about-the-millennium/#comment-77026</link>
		<dc:creator>Adam Maarschalk</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 18 May 2013 15:02:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thegospelcoalition.org/blogs/tgc/?p=30090#comment-77026</guid>
		<description>Jack, I believe that the reason Isaiah 65-66 describes current realities (people being born, working, dying, etc.) is that Isaiah makes use of covenantal language. That is, he equated the &quot;new heavens and the new earth&quot; with the new covenant age that Jesus inaugurated at the cross. He further confirmed the advent of the new covenant age at the time of the destruction of Jerusalem and the temple, the very embodiment of the old covenant age (&quot;the old heavens and earth,&quot; if you will) in 70 AD. 

When Isaiah was given his vision concerning Judah and Jerusalem, the very first words he uttered were these: “Hear, O heavens, and give ear, O earth; for the Lord has spoken” (Isaiah 1:2). So he linked Israel with the heavens and the earth. This is not unique to Isaiah, for heaven and earth were repeatedly called as witnesses against Israel (e.g. Deuteronomy 4:26, 30:18-19, 31:28, 32:1; Jeremiah 2:12, 6:19; Micah 6:2). In Isaiah 51, speaking to the people of Israel, God says:

&quot;I, I am He who comforts you; who are you that you…have forgotten the Lord, your Maker, who stretched out the heavens and laid the foundations of the earth…? …And I have put My words in your mouth and covered you in the shadow of My hand, establishing the heavens and laying the foundations of the earth, and saying to Zion, ‘You are My people’&quot; (verses 12-16).

Psalm 68:7-8 reiterates that the earth and the heavens were greatly affected when “God, the One of Sinai” marched through the wilderness before His people, as does Judges 5:4-5. Jeremiah also spoke of Jerusalem’s pending destruction (in 586 BC) in a way that might seem as if he was talking about planet earth and the galaxies, if it weren’t for the context:

“My anguish, my anguish! I writhe in pain! Oh, the walls of my heart! My heart is beating wildly; I cannot keep silent, for I hear the sound of the trumpet, the alarm of war… I looked on the earth, and behold, it was without form and void; and to the heavens, and they had no light… For thus says the Lord, ‘The whole land shall be a desolation; yet I will not make a full end. For this the earth shall mourn, and the heavens above be dark…’” (Jeremiah 4:19, 23, 27).

Isaiah’s description of the new heavens and earth in Isaiah 65-66 mirrors what we see in the New Testament. Paul told the Ephesians that God’s people are called to “put on the new self, created after the likeness of God in true righteousness and holiness” (Ephesians 4:24). He likewise told the Corinthians, “Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation. The old has passed away; behold, the new has come” (II Corinthians 5:17). In Christ, a new temple/tabernacle had come (e.g. I Corinthians 3:16-17, I Cor. 6:19, II Cor. 6:16, Ephesians 2:21, Revelation 3:12), and the old temple/tabernacle was marked for destruction. During the one generation following the cross, all of the rituals linked to the temple in Jerusalem were meaningless and worthless, although they continued in practice. By the end of that generation, the temple and those worthless rituals were gone.

We would also do well to remember that Jesus had already made a very significant statement about the disappearance of (the old) heaven and earth in the Sermon on the Mount:

“Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. For truly I tell you, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will be any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished” (Matthew 5:17-18).

Is the Law 100% intact even now in the year 2013, and are we thus still under the old heavens and earth? Or did Jesus accomplish everything and fulfill the Law, so that we are now under the covenantal framework of the new heavens and earth? Matthew 5:17-18 is an all-or-nothing statement. If “heaven and earth” have not yet disappeared, neither then has even one trace of the Law of Moses.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Jack, I believe that the reason Isaiah 65-66 describes current realities (people being born, working, dying, etc.) is that Isaiah makes use of covenantal language. That is, he equated the "new heavens and the new earth" with the new covenant age that Jesus inaugurated at the cross. He further confirmed the advent of the new covenant age at the time of the destruction of Jerusalem and the temple, the very embodiment of the old covenant age ("the old heavens and earth," if you will) in 70 AD. </p>
<p>When Isaiah was given his vision concerning Judah and Jerusalem, the very first words he uttered were these: “Hear, O heavens, and give ear, O earth; for the Lord has spoken” (Isaiah 1:2). So he linked Israel with the heavens and the earth. This is not unique to Isaiah, for heaven and earth were repeatedly called as witnesses against Israel (e.g. Deuteronomy 4:26, 30:18-19, 31:28, 32:1; Jeremiah 2:12, 6:19; Micah 6:2). In Isaiah 51, speaking to the people of Israel, God says:</p>
<p>"I, I am He who comforts you; who are you that you…have forgotten the Lord, your Maker, who stretched out the heavens and laid the foundations of the earth…? …And I have put My words in your mouth and covered you in the shadow of My hand, establishing the heavens and laying the foundations of the earth, and saying to Zion, ‘You are My people’" (verses 12-16).</p>
<p>Psalm 68:7-8 reiterates that the earth and the heavens were greatly affected when “God, the One of Sinai” marched through the wilderness before His people, as does Judges 5:4-5. Jeremiah also spoke of Jerusalem’s pending destruction (in 586 BC) in a way that might seem as if he was talking about planet earth and the galaxies, if it weren’t for the context:</p>
<p>“My anguish, my anguish! I writhe in pain! Oh, the walls of my heart! My heart is beating wildly; I cannot keep silent, for I hear the sound of the trumpet, the alarm of war… I looked on the earth, and behold, it was without form and void; and to the heavens, and they had no light… For thus says the Lord, ‘The whole land shall be a desolation; yet I will not make a full end. For this the earth shall mourn, and the heavens above be dark…’” (Jeremiah 4:19, 23, 27).</p>
<p>Isaiah’s description of the new heavens and earth in Isaiah 65-66 mirrors what we see in the New Testament. Paul told the Ephesians that God’s people are called to “put on the new self, created after the likeness of God in true righteousness and holiness” (Ephesians 4:24). He likewise told the Corinthians, “Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation. The old has passed away; behold, the new has come” (II Corinthians 5:17). In Christ, a new temple/tabernacle had come (e.g. I Corinthians 3:16-17, I Cor. 6:19, II Cor. 6:16, Ephesians 2:21, Revelation 3:12), and the old temple/tabernacle was marked for destruction. During the one generation following the cross, all of the rituals linked to the temple in Jerusalem were meaningless and worthless, although they continued in practice. By the end of that generation, the temple and those worthless rituals were gone.</p>
<p>We would also do well to remember that Jesus had already made a very significant statement about the disappearance of (the old) heaven and earth in the Sermon on the Mount:</p>
<p>“Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. For truly I tell you, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will be any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished” (Matthew 5:17-18).</p>
<p>Is the Law 100% intact even now in the year 2013, and are we thus still under the old heavens and earth? Or did Jesus accomplish everything and fulfill the Law, so that we are now under the covenantal framework of the new heavens and earth? Matthew 5:17-18 is an all-or-nothing statement. If “heaven and earth” have not yet disappeared, neither then has even one trace of the Law of Moses.</p>
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		<title>By: Simple Elder</title>
		<link>http://thegospelcoalition.org/blogs/tgc/2013/01/09/why-i-changed-my-mind-about-the-millennium/#comment-77012</link>
		<dc:creator>Simple Elder</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 18 May 2013 11:00:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thegospelcoalition.org/blogs/tgc/?p=30090#comment-77012</guid>
		<description>Dang, Jack. I sure was having a spot of fun as an incognito paratrooper sniping behind enemy lines.

And just as I was hoping you were about to accept the Bible the way it&#039;s written you go all &quot;that&#039;s nonsense&quot; on me and stay in the amil camp. Ah well, no ultimate loss. See you in heaven.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Dang, Jack. I sure was having a spot of fun as an incognito paratrooper sniping behind enemy lines.</p>
<p>And just as I was hoping you were about to accept the Bible the way it's written you go all "that's nonsense" on me and stay in the amil camp. Ah well, no ultimate loss. See you in heaven.</p>
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		<title>By: Jack</title>
		<link>http://thegospelcoalition.org/blogs/tgc/2013/01/09/why-i-changed-my-mind-about-the-millennium/#comment-76989</link>
		<dc:creator>Jack</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 18 May 2013 06:41:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thegospelcoalition.org/blogs/tgc/?p=30090#comment-76989</guid>
		<description>But this blog is entitled &quot;Why I Changed My Mind About the Millennium&quot; and became an Amelliennist, by extension. So there is no Millennium as you refer to it, that 1000-year period that starts right after some fictional rapture and 7-year tribulation. Hold on. I just realized you are not Sam Storms. Somehow, in my typing zeal I overlooked that. I thought I was talking to an amillenniest like myself. I sincerely apologize. Ah, your name is Simple Elder, not Sam. I just checked. Sorry to have wasted your time, Elder. I don&#039;t buy into the 1000-year Millennium and rapture nonsense.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>But this blog is entitled "Why I Changed My Mind About the Millennium" and became an Amelliennist, by extension. So there is no Millennium as you refer to it, that 1000-year period that starts right after some fictional rapture and 7-year tribulation. Hold on. I just realized you are not Sam Storms. Somehow, in my typing zeal I overlooked that. I thought I was talking to an amillenniest like myself. I sincerely apologize. Ah, your name is Simple Elder, not Sam. I just checked. Sorry to have wasted your time, Elder. I don't buy into the 1000-year Millennium and rapture nonsense.</p>
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		<title>By: Simple Elder</title>
		<link>http://thegospelcoalition.org/blogs/tgc/2013/01/09/why-i-changed-my-mind-about-the-millennium/#comment-76971</link>
		<dc:creator>Simple Elder</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 18 May 2013 01:59:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thegospelcoalition.org/blogs/tgc/?p=30090#comment-76971</guid>
		<description>&quot;I will also rejoice in Jerusalem and be glad in My people; And there will no longer be heard in her The voice of weeping and the sound of crying. No longer will there be in it an infant who lives but a few days, Or an old man who does not live out his days; For the youth will die at the age of one hundred And the one who does not reach the age of one hundred Will be thought accursed.&quot; (Isa. 65:19-20)

This is the redeemed Jerusalem of this earth in the millenium and not the New Jerusalem since Isaiah says: &quot;no longer(/u&gt; will there be in it....&quot; We still await this event to be literally fulfilled, as we do of the youth and the old man.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>"I will also rejoice in Jerusalem and be glad in My people; And there will no longer be heard in her The voice of weeping and the sound of crying. No longer will there be in it an infant who lives but a few days, Or an old man who does not live out his days; For the youth will die at the age of one hundred And the one who does not reach the age of one hundred Will be thought accursed." (Isa. 65:19-20)</p>
<p>This is the redeemed Jerusalem of this earth in the millenium and not the New Jerusalem since Isaiah says: "no longer(/u&gt; will there be in it...." We still await this event to be literally fulfilled, as we do of the youth and the old man.</p>
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		<title>By: Jack</title>
		<link>http://thegospelcoalition.org/blogs/tgc/2013/01/09/why-i-changed-my-mind-about-the-millennium/#comment-76953</link>
		<dc:creator>Jack</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 17 May 2013 21:54:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thegospelcoalition.org/blogs/tgc/?p=30090#comment-76953</guid>
		<description>So would you say that activities as described in Isaiah 65-66 are temporal until the resurrection whereupon they cease, or do they start before the resurrection and continue through the resurrection into eternity, or do they commence when God creates the new heavens and the new earth and continue throughout eternity. I&#039;m having difficulty placing exactly where on the timeline Isaiah 65-66 starts and how long it continues. I&#039;m not trying to be combative, honest; I&#039;m genuinely confused and desperately need a concise answer that I can comprehend so I can end my confusion.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>So would you say that activities as described in Isaiah 65-66 are temporal until the resurrection whereupon they cease, or do they start before the resurrection and continue through the resurrection into eternity, or do they commence when God creates the new heavens and the new earth and continue throughout eternity. I'm having difficulty placing exactly where on the timeline Isaiah 65-66 starts and how long it continues. I'm not trying to be combative, honest; I'm genuinely confused and desperately need a concise answer that I can comprehend so I can end my confusion.</p>
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		<title>By: Simple Elder</title>
		<link>http://thegospelcoalition.org/blogs/tgc/2013/01/09/why-i-changed-my-mind-about-the-millennium/#comment-76846</link>
		<dc:creator>Simple Elder</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 16 May 2013 21:55:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thegospelcoalition.org/blogs/tgc/?p=30090#comment-76846</guid>
		<description>Jack - the best way is to interpret it exactly as it reads. 

Good job for not explaining it away!!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Jack - the best way is to interpret it exactly as it reads. </p>
<p>Good job for not explaining it away!!</p>
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		<title>By: Jack</title>
		<link>http://thegospelcoalition.org/blogs/tgc/2013/01/09/why-i-changed-my-mind-about-the-millennium/#comment-76820</link>
		<dc:creator>Jack</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 16 May 2013 19:02:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thegospelcoalition.org/blogs/tgc/?p=30090#comment-76820</guid>
		<description>I am not a pre-millenniast and am probably more amillenniast than anything, but if we do away with the millennium, then how do we interpret Isaiah 65-66 where after God creates the new heavens and new earth  children are still being born and dying, people are working in the vineyards and fields and life is generally going on as usual, as it was before the creation of the new heavens and earth?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I am not a pre-millenniast and am probably more amillenniast than anything, but if we do away with the millennium, then how do we interpret Isaiah 65-66 where after God creates the new heavens and new earth  children are still being born and dying, people are working in the vineyards and fields and life is generally going on as usual, as it was before the creation of the new heavens and earth?</p>
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