Comments on: Do Christian Parents Have a Fundamental Right to Homeschool? http://thegospelcoalition.org/blogs/tgc/2013/02/15/do-christian-parents-have-a-fundamental-right-to-homeschool/ Fri, 24 May 2013 12:34:26 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.2 By: A Historical Timeline of the Modern U.S. Homeschooling Movement | H • A http://thegospelcoalition.org/blogs/tgc/2013/02/15/do-christian-parents-have-a-fundamental-right-to-homeschool/#comment-72855 A Historical Timeline of the Modern U.S. Homeschooling Movement | H • A Tue, 09 Apr 2013 21:09:23 +0000 http://thegospelcoalition.org/blogs/tgc/?p=32625#comment-72855 [...] (110) http://thegospelcoalition.org/blogs/tgc/2013/02/15/do-christian-parents-have-a-fundamental-right-to-... [...] [...] (110) http://thegospelcoalition.org/blogs/tgc/2013/02/15/do-christian-parents-have-a-fundamental-right-to-... [...]

]]> By: Amy http://thegospelcoalition.org/blogs/tgc/2013/02/15/do-christian-parents-have-a-fundamental-right-to-homeschool/#comment-66936 Amy Thu, 28 Feb 2013 00:57:42 +0000 http://thegospelcoalition.org/blogs/tgc/?p=32625#comment-66936 Karen, your apology is unnecessary, but of course you are forgiven! I was only concerned that I had been unclear. It sounds as if you are a wonderful mother though; your children are very blessed to have someone so devoted to stewarding them and their education so well. Karen, your apology is unnecessary, but of course you are forgiven! I was only concerned that I had been unclear. It sounds as if you are a wonderful mother though; your children are very blessed to have someone so devoted to stewarding them and their education so well.

]]> By: Karen Butler http://thegospelcoalition.org/blogs/tgc/2013/02/15/do-christian-parents-have-a-fundamental-right-to-homeschool/#comment-66164 Karen Butler Sat, 23 Feb 2013 17:41:01 +0000 http://thegospelcoalition.org/blogs/tgc/?p=32625#comment-66164 I was hard on you, Amy. I'm sorry! You are right, you did say you were not pretending to give any answers. I guess it was hard for me to hear your criticisms as a one-time barely surviving homeschooling mom --but our little school has persevered under great pressure, and we have seen a good reward from our efforts. Perhaps churches should be more involved with the homeschools in their midst, and a parent's lack of diligence in educating their children should be seen as a matter subject to church discipline. Because these parents *are* exasperating their children. As for being passionate about homeschooling, not at all! I am ans indifferent spokesman. I don't even feature it as a category on my blog. The articles I linked to above were criticisms of the homeschooling community's embrace of the child abusing practices promoted by Michael Pearl. My passions are for sharing the gospel, and I begin with my children first. I am surprised that on this thread I became homeschooling's most vocal advocate. I thought champions for it would come out in droves, and I could shrug off the mantle of spokesperson. Go figure! Again, I am so sorry for being harsh with you. Please forgive me. I was hard on you, Amy. I'm sorry! You are right, you did say you were not pretending to give any answers. I guess it was hard for me to hear your criticisms as a one-time barely surviving homeschooling mom --but our little school has persevered under great pressure, and we have seen a good reward from our efforts.
Perhaps churches should be more involved with the homeschools in their midst, and a parent's lack of diligence in educating their children should be seen as a matter subject to church discipline. Because these parents *are* exasperating their children.

As for being passionate about homeschooling, not at all! I am ans indifferent spokesman. I don't even feature it as a category on my blog. The articles I linked to above were criticisms of the homeschooling community's embrace of the child abusing practices promoted by Michael Pearl.

My passions are for sharing the gospel, and I begin with my children first. I am surprised that on this thread I became homeschooling's most vocal advocate. I thought champions for it would come out in droves, and I could shrug off the mantle of spokesperson. Go figure!

Again, I am so sorry for being harsh with you. Please forgive me.

]]> By: Amy http://thegospelcoalition.org/blogs/tgc/2013/02/15/do-christian-parents-have-a-fundamental-right-to-homeschool/#comment-65751 Amy Fri, 22 Feb 2013 01:14:22 +0000 http://thegospelcoalition.org/blogs/tgc/?p=32625#comment-65751 P.S. to Karen. Also, I wanted to stress that I tried to make it very clear in the comment you responded to that I humbly admit I don't know the best way to ensure homeschooling children are receiving a proper education. As I noted, there are college-educated adults I know who I do not believe are fit to teach, and there are quite brilliant and gifted people who only a GED. I also admitted that I don't know if yearly testing would be beneficial or not, only that it was the only thing I could think of. Sadly, I only have noticed the holes in the system that I went through, and do not yet have the wisdom to know the answers. I hope God will grant me that discernment sooner rather than later, and pray for the wisdom that comes from above daily. :) P.S. to Karen. Also, I wanted to stress that I tried to make it very clear in the comment you responded to that I humbly admit I don't know the best way to ensure homeschooling children are receiving a proper education. As I noted, there are college-educated adults I know who I do not believe are fit to teach, and there are quite brilliant and gifted people who only a GED. I also admitted that I don't know if yearly testing would be beneficial or not, only that it was the only thing I could think of. Sadly, I only have noticed the holes in the system that I went through, and do not yet have the wisdom to know the answers. I hope God will grant me that discernment sooner rather than later, and pray for the wisdom that comes from above daily. :)

]]> By: Amy http://thegospelcoalition.org/blogs/tgc/2013/02/15/do-christian-parents-have-a-fundamental-right-to-homeschool/#comment-65750 Amy Fri, 22 Feb 2013 01:10:52 +0000 http://thegospelcoalition.org/blogs/tgc/?p=32625#comment-65750 Karen, your passion for homeschooling is commendable! They need advocates. I am not anti-homeschooling at all; I want to stress that. I have even contemplated homeschooling my own children (although I'm not yet a mother). I know that I would want to steward my children well, as gifts from God, and would welcome the idea of being held accountable in that stewardship. I simply believe that the greater the responsibility, the greater the need for accountability. This goes for myriad things, not merely homeschooling. I won't change my mind about that part, but I do appreciate the information you gave me and I will definitely look into it! Karen, your passion for homeschooling is commendable! They need advocates. I am not anti-homeschooling at all; I want to stress that. I have even contemplated homeschooling my own children (although I'm not yet a mother). I know that I would want to steward my children well, as gifts from God, and would welcome the idea of being held accountable in that stewardship. I simply believe that the greater the responsibility, the greater the need for accountability. This goes for myriad things, not merely homeschooling. I won't change my mind about that part, but I do appreciate the information you gave me and I will definitely look into it!

]]> By: Karen Butler http://thegospelcoalition.org/blogs/tgc/2013/02/15/do-christian-parents-have-a-fundamental-right-to-homeschool/#comment-65469 Karen Butler Wed, 20 Feb 2013 22:34:01 +0000 http://thegospelcoalition.org/blogs/tgc/?p=32625#comment-65469 I am so glad you were encouraged! I used to teach in a private school for special ed students who couldn't be mainstreamed, Sue. My mother-in-law was a teacher. I have such respect for the calling. I used to be of the 'don't tread on me' camp of homeschoolers, but I am coming to reluctantly agree that we will probably have to accept some oversight. I agree with Robert Kunzman -- whose survey I cite below on the complexities of such regulation -- who says that less is more. I am so glad you were encouraged! I used to teach in a private school for special ed students who couldn't be mainstreamed, Sue. My mother-in-law was a teacher. I have such respect for the calling.

I used to be of the 'don't tread on me' camp of homeschoolers, but I am coming to reluctantly agree that we will probably have to accept some oversight. I agree with Robert Kunzman -- whose survey I cite below on the complexities of such regulation -- who says that less is more.

]]> By: Tim http://thegospelcoalition.org/blogs/tgc/2013/02/15/do-christian-parents-have-a-fundamental-right-to-homeschool/#comment-65409 Tim Wed, 20 Feb 2013 17:39:04 +0000 http://thegospelcoalition.org/blogs/tgc/?p=32625#comment-65409 This is an issue of freedom...not an issue of which system is better. I was homeschooled, public schooled and Christian schooled and now I'm a homeschool dad. Truth be told, there is no hard set rule. As a pastor people ask me all the time whether they should homeschool or not. The issue is whether or not you are going to be able to instil a proper worldview into your children. For some, they can't do it unless they are at home. For some, they are really involved with their children's education and are able to engage with their children so well that it doesn't matter which style of school they are in. That is up to the parent which is the point of this article. It should be the parents choice where they believe that can best be accomplished. Some people think they can best accomplish this homeschooling and they don't accomplish much. They teach their children an anti-gospel moralism worldview which is just as damaging as any other secular worldview. And there are some that think their kids will be taught best by exposure...they have good intentions of asking their kids questions daily and working through worldview questions with them, but when it comes time to practice their ideal situation, they are too busy and drop the ball. Both ideologies take a disciplined resolution to affect their kids for the Glory of God. Sadly, for most, it's just too much work...that's what youth group and Sunday School is for (yes, I mean that sarcastically). And I'm not sure which person commented on the fact that they know many homeschoolers having a hard time getting jobs as a reason not to homeschool but that is just a mute point...if not misleading. I worked in the trades for ten year trying to pay my way through bible college and Seminary and still raising a family. I never had the opportunity to work with a homeschooler. Every single person I ever worked with (which was hundreds) was a public school grad with the exception of one. I can tell you that I worked with many men...some recent high school grads...who couldn't even read a tape measure. They were generally lazy (with the exception of just a few) and almost all of them were dishonest with their time, and undisciplined. I'm not saying that was because they were public schooled...I'm just saying the only reason some of them had a job was because they had a diploma. Many homeschooled kids don't have the diploma. That is the reason they have a hard time getting a job. Not because they aren't adequate for the work. We have a kid in our church that was homeschooled who is a chemical engineer who is currently doing an internship at a major engineering firm. So the "they can't get jobs" things has nothing to do with their unpreparedness. That is just misleading. I also owned my own business and I can say that the public school is not pumping out the finest of young kids...so again, a mute point. The same could be said of Homeschoolers too. My point is that the issue is with the parents, not the model of education. Be on purpose with your kids parents. This is an issue of freedom...not an issue of which system is better. I was homeschooled, public schooled and Christian schooled and now I'm a homeschool dad. Truth be told, there is no hard set rule. As a pastor people ask me all the time whether they should homeschool or not. The issue is whether or not you are going to be able to instil a proper worldview into your children. For some, they can't do it unless they are at home. For some, they are really involved with their children's education and are able to engage with their children so well that it doesn't matter which style of school they are in. That is up to the parent which is the point of this article. It should be the parents choice where they believe that can best be accomplished. Some people think they can best accomplish this homeschooling and they don't accomplish much. They teach their children an anti-gospel moralism worldview which is just as damaging as any other secular worldview. And there are some that think their kids will be taught best by exposure...they have good intentions of asking their kids questions daily and working through worldview questions with them, but when it comes time to practice their ideal situation, they are too busy and drop the ball. Both ideologies take a disciplined resolution to affect their kids for the Glory of God. Sadly, for most, it's just too much work...that's what youth group and Sunday School is for (yes, I mean that sarcastically).

And I'm not sure which person commented on the fact that they know many homeschoolers having a hard time getting jobs as a reason not to homeschool but that is just a mute point...if not misleading. I worked in the trades for ten year trying to pay my way through bible college and Seminary and still raising a family. I never had the opportunity to work with a homeschooler. Every single person I ever worked with (which was hundreds) was a public school grad with the exception of one. I can tell you that I worked with many men...some recent high school grads...who couldn't even read a tape measure. They were generally lazy (with the exception of just a few) and almost all of them were dishonest with their time, and undisciplined. I'm not saying that was because they were public schooled...I'm just saying the only reason some of them had a job was because they had a diploma. Many homeschooled kids don't have the diploma. That is the reason they have a hard time getting a job. Not because they aren't adequate for the work. We have a kid in our church that was homeschooled who is a chemical engineer who is currently doing an internship at a major engineering firm. So the "they can't get jobs" things has nothing to do with their unpreparedness. That is just misleading. I also owned my own business and I can say that the public school is not pumping out the finest of young kids...so again, a mute point.

The same could be said of Homeschoolers too. My point is that the issue is with the parents, not the model of education. Be on purpose with your kids parents.

]]> By: Autumn http://thegospelcoalition.org/blogs/tgc/2013/02/15/do-christian-parents-have-a-fundamental-right-to-homeschool/#comment-65310 Autumn Wed, 20 Feb 2013 04:47:00 +0000 http://thegospelcoalition.org/blogs/tgc/?p=32625#comment-65310 You do not take away the freedom of many who ARE doing it right to find the FEW who are not.... Child protective services doesn't have the right to come and check out every home just to be sure there is no abuse happening.... So why should those of us who are doing a wonderful job of home educating our children be subjected to intense regulations and scrutiny by the state?? Or have to "prove our abilities" before we can teach our own children?? As I said ... I home educate in Pennsylvania .... I have to jump through quite a few hoops to meet state requirements. It is really bothersome to think that the superintendent of my school district has the power to say whether or not all the hard work we put into our school year is up to standard! Especially when they know nothing about me or my children. I certainly don't get to go into the school and check out the students test scores and end of year reports to see if they are up to snuff! Yet I pay taxes in the district without utilizing any of the services. You do not take away the freedom of many who ARE doing it right to find the FEW who are not.... Child protective services doesn't have the right to come and check out every home just to be sure there is no abuse happening.... So why should those of us who are doing a wonderful job of home educating our children be subjected to intense regulations and scrutiny by the state?? Or have to "prove our abilities" before we can teach our own children?? As I said ... I home educate in Pennsylvania .... I have to jump through quite a few hoops to meet state requirements. It is really bothersome to think that the superintendent of my school district has the power to say whether or not all the hard work we put into our school year is up to standard! Especially when they know nothing about me or my children. I certainly don't get to go into the school and check out the students test scores and end of year reports to see if they are up to snuff! Yet I pay taxes in the district without utilizing any of the services.

]]> By: Sue http://thegospelcoalition.org/blogs/tgc/2013/02/15/do-christian-parents-have-a-fundamental-right-to-homeschool/#comment-65304 Sue Wed, 20 Feb 2013 04:05:38 +0000 http://thegospelcoalition.org/blogs/tgc/?p=32625#comment-65304 Karen, Thank you for the encouragement that you provided in your first paragraph. I have had a few families approach me for teaching advice, and for the most part, it was well-received. As I stated earlier, I am not against homeschooling at all and believe that it should be an option for parents. I DO think that it should be regulated to prevent the cases about which I previously wrote. Sue Karen,

Thank you for the encouragement that you provided in your first paragraph. I have had a few families approach me for teaching advice, and for the most part, it was well-received.

As I stated earlier, I am not against homeschooling at all and believe that it should be an option for parents. I DO think that it should be regulated to prevent the cases about which I previously wrote.

Sue

]]> By: Sue http://thegospelcoalition.org/blogs/tgc/2013/02/15/do-christian-parents-have-a-fundamental-right-to-homeschool/#comment-65302 Sue Wed, 20 Feb 2013 03:58:00 +0000 http://thegospelcoalition.org/blogs/tgc/?p=32625#comment-65302 No, we don't have criteria to determine whether or not prospective parents are fit to bring children into this world; but we do have a process to take away those rights if said children are the victims of abuse or neglect, right? I believe that some of what passes for homeschooling IS a form of neglect and children DO deserve protection from poor homeschooling practices. Parents (and teachers) do NOT have fundamental rights to neglect schooling in such a way that it leads to the inability of children to find meaningful work as adults - meaningful to the child - not the parent. Amy's original post confirmed that her homeschooling peers who were the victims of poor homeschooling practices are having a very difficult time finding employment. How does this benefit society, the family, or the church? No, we don't have criteria to determine whether or not prospective parents are fit to bring children into this world; but we do have a process to take away those rights if said children are the victims of abuse or neglect, right?

I believe that some of what passes for homeschooling IS a form of neglect and children DO deserve protection from poor homeschooling practices. Parents (and teachers) do NOT have fundamental rights to neglect schooling in such a way that it leads to the inability of children to find meaningful work as adults - meaningful to the child - not the parent.

Amy's original post confirmed that her homeschooling peers who were the victims of poor homeschooling practices are having a very difficult time finding employment. How does this benefit society, the family, or the church?

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