Comments on: Conversations with a Catholic 6 – Common Ground on Liturgy http://thegospelcoalition.org/blogs/trevinwax/2007/05/31/conversations-with-a-catholic-6-common-ground-on-liturgy/?utm_source=rss&utm_medium=rss&utm_campaign=conversations-with-a-catholic-6-common-ground-on-liturgy Kingdom People - Living on Earth as Citizens of Heaven Thu, 09 Feb 2012 20:45:00 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.1 By: Rover red http://thegospelcoalition.org/blogs/trevinwax/2007/05/31/conversations-with-a-catholic-6-common-ground-on-liturgy/#comment-821 Rover red Fri, 04 Mar 2011 04:05:33 +0000 http://trevinwax.wordpress.com/2007/05/31/conversations-with-a-catholic-6-common-ground-on-liturgy/#comment-821 Just 70 years ago ROME & Catholic Italy had just attacked & launched a massive, hellish WAR on its neighbors. Butchering & murdering Millions & MILLIONS of innocent peacefull people...JUST for not JOINING up with HITLER ~ for NO REASON...... MURDERING Thousands of Africans, Egyptians , Greece & others ... ROME & Catholic Italy had JUST Joined up with Hitler, IT took 22,000 { twenty two thousand}.....] US American tooops DYING, IN ITALY, for the USA to defeat Catholic Italy.... ~~~~~~~~~Millions of Catholics IN Germany & Italy..... murdered Millions of OTHER CATHOLICS & Non Catholics round the planet.. Simply for not joining up with The Catholic Hitler.. This was just 70 yrs ago..... we can understand why and how catholics are feeling lonley or different from other religions. Muslims are going throught the same eXact thing today.. As were we are at war with islamic terrorists ,,,, We were at war with Catholic terrorists and nazis in WW ll. We can only pray for catholics and muslims ... We must never { as bible believers } resort to their traditions of force conversions and violent attacks upon NON catholislamics. Prayer and love is all we can do for them... ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ for NO REASON...... other than to KILL and distroy and take other peoples land and property/. Catholic italy MURDERED Thousands of Africans, Egyptians , Greece and others ... coastal areas / ROME and Catholic Italy had JUST Joined up with Hitler, The pope NEVER SAID A WORD as millions of Catholics & Germany urfered other catholics & NON CATHOLICS. Attacking them ....with NO provication./...... THE POPE WAS calling for CATHOLICS to stop......... How much LESS he cared for the Jew.... The Jews were not the ONLY TARGET on Catholic Italys list. IT took 22,000 { twenty two thousand}.....] US American tooops DYING, IN ITALY, for no reason CATHOLIC ITALY attacked Thousands of Africans, Egyptians , Greece & others … Just for NOT joining uP AND becoming a member of the aliance OF Germany & Italy. It took 22000 ( TWENTY TWO THOUSAND ) US American MENS lifes in the milityry to BE SLAUGHTERED by Catholic Italy.... FOr the USA to defeat Catholic Italy.... It took 22000 ( TWENTY TWO THOUSAND ) US American MENS lifes / ( DEAD ~~~~~~~~~Millions of Catholics IN Germany & Italy.. ... murdered Millions of OTHER CATHOLICS & Non Catholics round the planet.. Simply for not joining up with The Catholic Hitler.. This was just 70 yrs ago..... Just 70 years ago ROME & Catholic Italy had just attacked & launched a massive, hellish WAR on its neighbors.

Butchering & murdering Millions & MILLIONS of innocent peacefull people…JUST for not JOINING up with HITLER ~

for NO REASON…… MURDERING Thousands of Africans, Egyptians , Greece & others …

ROME & Catholic Italy had JUST Joined up with Hitler,
IT took 22,000

{ twenty two thousand}…..]

US American tooops DYING, IN ITALY, for
the USA to defeat Catholic Italy….

~~~~~~~~~Millions of Catholics IN Germany & Italy….. murdered Millions of OTHER CATHOLICS & Non Catholics round the planet..

Simply for not joining up with The Catholic Hitler..

This was just 70 yrs ago…..

we can understand why and how catholics are feeling lonley or different from other religions.

Muslims are going throught the same eXact thing today..

As were we are at war with islamic terrorists ,,,,

We were at war with Catholic terrorists and nazis

in WW ll.

We can only pray for catholics and muslims …

We must never { as bible believers } resort to their traditions of force conversions and violent attacks upon NON catholislamics.

Prayer and love is all we can do for them…

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

for NO REASON…… other than to KILL and distroy and take other peoples land and property/.

Catholic italy MURDERED Thousands of Africans, Egyptians , Greece and others … coastal areas /

ROME and Catholic Italy had JUST Joined up with Hitler,

The pope NEVER SAID A WORD as millions of Catholics & Germany urfered other catholics & NON CATHOLICS.

Attacking them ….with NO provication./……

THE POPE WAS calling for CATHOLICS to stop………

How much LESS he cared for the Jew….

The Jews were not the ONLY TARGET on Catholic Italys list.

IT took 22,000 { twenty two thousand}…..]
US American tooops DYING, IN ITALY,

for no reason CATHOLIC ITALY attacked Thousands of Africans, Egyptians , Greece & others …

Just for NOT joining uP AND becoming a member of the aliance OF Germany & Italy.

It took 22000 ( TWENTY TWO THOUSAND ) US American MENS lifes in the milityry to BE SLAUGHTERED by Catholic Italy….

FOr the USA to defeat Catholic Italy….

It took 22000 ( TWENTY TWO THOUSAND ) US American MENS lifes / ( DEAD

~~~~~~~~~Millions of Catholics IN Germany & Italy..

… murdered Millions of OTHER CATHOLICS & Non Catholics round the planet..

Simply for not joining up with The Catholic Hitler..

This was just 70 yrs ago…..

]]> By: Kingdom People – May 2009 « Kingdom People http://thegospelcoalition.org/blogs/trevinwax/2007/05/31/conversations-with-a-catholic-6-common-ground-on-liturgy/#comment-819 Kingdom People – May 2009 « Kingdom People Sun, 31 May 2009 08:34:34 +0000 http://trevinwax.wordpress.com/2007/05/31/conversations-with-a-catholic-6-common-ground-on-liturgy/#comment-819 [...] Items from the Archive Earth Day or Easter? Mother’s Day or Pentecost? - May 2008 Conversations with a Roman Catholic – May 2007 Comments [...] [...] Items from the Archive Earth Day or Easter? Mother’s Day or Pentecost? - May 2008 Conversations with a Roman Catholic – May 2007 Comments [...]

]]> By: Visiting a Catholic Church 1 « Kingdom People http://thegospelcoalition.org/blogs/trevinwax/2007/05/31/conversations-with-a-catholic-6-common-ground-on-liturgy/#comment-820 Visiting a Catholic Church 1 « Kingdom People Mon, 23 Mar 2009 08:43:50 +0000 http://trevinwax.wordpress.com/2007/05/31/conversations-with-a-catholic-6-common-ground-on-liturgy/#comment-820 [...] Related Articles: My Series of Conversations with a Catholic [...] [...] Related Articles: My Series of Conversations with a Catholic [...]

]]> By: Conversations with a Catholic 7: Eucharist « Kingdom People http://thegospelcoalition.org/blogs/trevinwax/2007/05/31/conversations-with-a-catholic-6-common-ground-on-liturgy/#comment-818 Conversations with a Catholic 7: Eucharist « Kingdom People Fri, 07 Sep 2007 19:33:04 +0000 http://trevinwax.wordpress.com/2007/05/31/conversations-with-a-catholic-6-common-ground-on-liturgy/#comment-818 [...] we found some common ground on liturgy, and since the Eucharist is the high point of the RCC liturgy, let’s tackle the whole [...] [...] we found some common ground on liturgy, and since the Eucharist is the high point of the RCC liturgy, let’s tackle the whole [...]

]]> By: Brian http://thegospelcoalition.org/blogs/trevinwax/2007/05/31/conversations-with-a-catholic-6-common-ground-on-liturgy/#comment-817 Brian Fri, 01 Jun 2007 22:25:03 +0000 http://trevinwax.wordpress.com/2007/05/31/conversations-with-a-catholic-6-common-ground-on-liturgy/#comment-817 You are right about not about gathering in order to be in touch with the congregations "feelings". Worship isn't about us, it's about Him. At the burning bush, Moses took of his shoes because he was on holy ground. If nothing physically on this earth is "holy", then the word "holy" means nothing. When believers gather corporately in worship, we fulfill the greater mission of the church, and the church becomes a "light shining on a hill." That smacks of God's grace. And, in the gathering, where true worship occurs, holiness is present, and being mindful of reverence and deliberate intention (liturgy) can guide the body of believers to a higher plane. You are right about not about gathering in order to be in touch with the congregations “feelings”. Worship isn’t about us, it’s about Him. At the burning bush, Moses took of his shoes because he was on holy ground. If nothing physically on this earth is “holy”, then the word “holy” means nothing. When believers gather corporately in worship, we fulfill the greater mission of the church, and the church becomes a “light shining on a hill.” That smacks of God’s grace. And, in the gathering, where true worship occurs, holiness is present, and being mindful of reverence and deliberate intention (liturgy) can guide the body of believers to a higher plane.

]]> By: Bob http://thegospelcoalition.org/blogs/trevinwax/2007/05/31/conversations-with-a-catholic-6-common-ground-on-liturgy/#comment-816 Bob Thu, 31 May 2007 15:58:44 +0000 http://trevinwax.wordpress.com/2007/05/31/conversations-with-a-catholic-6-common-ground-on-liturgy/#comment-816 As someone who is currently straddling the gap between "high church" and "low church" I find this discussion very interesting. (I prefer a high/low distinction rather than Catholic/Protestant when it comes to worship styles since, as you point out, there are many liturgical Protestant denominations). Just something about the "coldness" of the liturgy. Though I was raised Catholic, my faith became my own in a non-denominational Christian church (low church). I've only recently begun to return to and appreciate high church (Episcopal, Lutheran, Presbyterian, and yes, Roman Catholic). The thing about the liturgy (earthly and heavenly) is that it continues unabated regardless of my participation. It doesn't need to extend a "warm" hand of invitation when I enter into it--it is I who need to be conformed to it. There's something to be said for that. Worship isn't a group of individuals who happen to gather in a place to individually pursue their own worship based on their "feelings". Much of low church comes down to that--sure we sing the same song but I may raise my hand, you might not, closed eyes, open, etc. Someone may offer one kind of prayer, someone else another, someone else none at all. I may read along with the text, take notes, etc. you may not. In high church, we come together not as individuals who conduct worship we come together as a people of God to join ourselves to the eternal liturgical celebration. Our postures, gestures, prayers, psalms are as one body. There is time for "warmth and fellowship" in the liturgy: exchanging a sign of Peace--usually after the penitential rite, after the Gloria, after the liturgy of the Word, and before we are invited to the Table of the Lord--the ultimate sign of our fellowship. Remember, this is worship not just a get together among friends where we can chat, sip our coffee, and check our text messages--Oh yeah, the preacher is saying something... Just my $.02 As someone who is currently straddling the gap between “high church” and “low church” I find this discussion very interesting. (I prefer a high/low distinction rather than Catholic/Protestant when it comes to worship styles since, as you point out, there are many liturgical Protestant denominations).

Just something about the “coldness” of the liturgy. Though I was raised Catholic, my faith became my own in a non-denominational Christian church (low church). I’ve only recently begun to return to and appreciate high church (Episcopal, Lutheran, Presbyterian, and yes, Roman Catholic). The thing about the liturgy (earthly and heavenly) is that it continues unabated regardless of my participation. It doesn’t need to extend a “warm” hand of invitation when I enter into it–it is I who need to be conformed to it. There’s something to be said for that. Worship isn’t a group of individuals who happen to gather in a place to individually pursue their own worship based on their “feelings”. Much of low church comes down to that–sure we sing the same song but I may raise my hand, you might not, closed eyes, open, etc. Someone may offer one kind of prayer, someone else another, someone else none at all. I may read along with the text, take notes, etc. you may not.

In high church, we come together not as individuals who conduct worship we come together as a people of God to join ourselves to the eternal liturgical celebration. Our postures, gestures, prayers, psalms are as one body.

There is time for “warmth and fellowship” in the liturgy: exchanging a sign of Peace–usually after the penitential rite, after the Gloria, after the liturgy of the Word, and before we are invited to the Table of the Lord–the ultimate sign of our fellowship. Remember, this is worship not just a get together among friends where we can chat, sip our coffee, and check our text messages–Oh yeah, the preacher is saying something…

Just my $.02

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