Comments on: Future of Justification 9: What is "The Gospel" Anyway? http://thegospelcoalition.org/blogs/trevinwax/2007/12/08/future-of-justification-9-what-is-the-gospel-anyway/?utm_source=rss&utm_medium=rss&utm_campaign=future-of-justification-9-what-is-the-gospel-anyway Kingdom People - Living on Earth as Citizens of Heaven Thu, 09 Feb 2012 20:45:00 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.1 By: trevinwax http://thegospelcoalition.org/blogs/trevinwax/2007/12/08/future-of-justification-9-what-is-the-gospel-anyway/#comment-1392 trevinwax Sat, 08 Dec 2007 18:45:09 +0000 http://trevinwax.com/2007/12/08/future-of-justification-9-what-is-the-gospel-anyway/#comment-1392 I'm tempted to weigh in here with some comments, but I'm going to leave that for the post that's coming Monday. I hope these posts on "What is the Gospel" will continue to stir thoughtful reflection. This is a good question to ask. I’m tempted to weigh in here with some comments, but I’m going to leave that for the post that’s coming Monday.

I hope these posts on “What is the Gospel” will continue to stir thoughtful reflection. This is a good question to ask.

]]> By: Stephen Roye http://thegospelcoalition.org/blogs/trevinwax/2007/12/08/future-of-justification-9-what-is-the-gospel-anyway/#comment-1393 Stephen Roye Sat, 08 Dec 2007 17:27:32 +0000 http://trevinwax.com/2007/12/08/future-of-justification-9-what-is-the-gospel-anyway/#comment-1393 I can't help but think that knowing that the person who interceded for his tormentors while he was dying at their hands and gave absolution to a dying criminal who had very recently made derisive comments toward him, that this person that has the qualities, is now is charge, is the good news that the world has been waiting for. Obviously this can't be good news to those who want to continue to do evil and do not want to repent. John Piper's view of the gospel can't be by its very nature be good news to everyone because it includes a call to repentance. I think that only a mind enlightened by the word and Spirit can truly receive the news as good. I think of Joseph when he had been lifted up, this was not good news from his brother's perspective because they were not enlightened as to his character, they were in fact terrified, but it was in fact good news for them even though they did not perceive it as such. I can’t help but think that knowing that the person who interceded for his tormentors while he was dying at their hands and gave absolution to a dying criminal who had very recently made derisive comments toward him, that this person that has the qualities, is now is charge, is the good news that the world has been waiting for. Obviously this can’t be good news to those who want to continue to do evil and do not want to repent. John Piper’s view of the gospel can’t be by its very nature be good news to everyone because it includes a call to repentance. I think that only a mind enlightened by the word and Spirit can truly receive the news as good. I think of Joseph when he had been lifted up, this was not good news from his brother’s perspective because they were not enlightened as to his character, they were in fact terrified, but it was in fact good news for them even though they did not perceive it as such.

]]> By: John Mark Inman http://thegospelcoalition.org/blogs/trevinwax/2007/12/08/future-of-justification-9-what-is-the-gospel-anyway/#comment-1394 John Mark Inman Sat, 08 Dec 2007 15:44:18 +0000 http://trevinwax.com/2007/12/08/future-of-justification-9-what-is-the-gospel-anyway/#comment-1394 I was reading throught Piper's book online and then you're interview went up a few weeks back. When I heard the part below, I thought Wright was answering Piper's challenge that the announcement of Lordship is not good news. Thanks for the interview and for working through Piper's book. The reason that’s good news… In the Roman Empire, when a new emperor came to the throne, there’d obviously been a time of uncertainty. Somebody’s just died. Is there going to be chaos? Is society going to collapse? Are we going to have pirates ruling the seas? Are we going to have no food to eat? And the good news is, we have an emperor and his name is such and such. So, we’re going to have justice and peace and prosperity, and isn’t that great?! Now, of course, most people in the Roman Empire knew that was rubbish because it was just another old jumped-up aristocrat who was going to do the same as the other ones had done. But that was the rhetoric. Paul slices straight in with the Isaianic message: Good news! God is becoming King and he is doing it through Jesus! And therefore, phew! God’s justice, God’s peace, God’s world is going to be renewed. And in the middle of that, of course, it’s good news for you and me. But that’s the derivative from, or the corollary of the good news which is a message about Jesus that has a second-order effect on me and you and us. But the gospel is not itself about you are this sort of a person and this can happen to you. That’s the result of the gospel rather than the gospel itself. I was reading throught Piper’s book online and then you’re interview went up a few weeks back. When I heard the part below, I thought Wright was answering Piper’s challenge that the announcement of Lordship is not good news.

Thanks for the interview and for working through Piper’s book.

The reason that’s good news… In the Roman Empire, when a new emperor came to the throne, there’d obviously been a time of uncertainty. Somebody’s just died. Is there going to be chaos? Is society going to collapse? Are we going to have pirates ruling the seas? Are we going to have no food to eat? And the good news is, we have an emperor and his name is such and such. So, we’re going to have justice and peace and prosperity, and isn’t that great?!

Now, of course, most people in the Roman Empire knew that was rubbish because it was just another old jumped-up aristocrat who was going to do the same as the other ones had done. But that was the rhetoric.

Paul slices straight in with the Isaianic message: Good news! God is becoming King and he is doing it through Jesus! And therefore, phew! God’s justice, God’s peace, God’s world is going to be renewed.

And in the middle of that, of course, it’s good news for you and me. But that’s the derivative from, or the corollary of the good news which is a message about Jesus that has a second-order effect on me and you and us. But the gospel is not itself about you are this sort of a person and this can happen to you. That’s the result of the gospel rather than the gospel itself.

]]> By: Raffi Shahinian http://thegospelcoalition.org/blogs/trevinwax/2007/12/08/future-of-justification-9-what-is-the-gospel-anyway/#comment-1395 Raffi Shahinian Sat, 08 Dec 2007 15:43:28 +0000 http://trevinwax.com/2007/12/08/future-of-justification-9-what-is-the-gospel-anyway/#comment-1395 Trevin: Yes, I agree that Piper's arguments in Chapter 5 are perhaps the most significant vis-a-vis his overall critique of Wright. I look forward to your thoughts in Monday's post. In anticipation of what will be discussed then, however, and as I've inidcated in my own <a HREF="http://parablesofaprodigalworld.blogspot.com/2007/12/still-more-thought-on-pipers-critique.html" rel="nofollow">post</A> on the issue, when we ask ourselves why an individual sinner would ever hear the message that "Jesus is Lord" as <em>euangelion</em>, "good news," the answer, I believes, lies in where you place the emphasis of the proclamation. If you hear the proclamation, as I believe Piper is stating it, as "Jesus <em>is Lord</em>" then you would rightfully see how a sinner would be terrified rather than elated. But look at it like this: "<em>Jesus</em> is Lord." Given that the early Christian pronouncement of the gospel would have certainly contained a detailed description of <a href="http://parablesofaprodigalworld.blogspot.com/2007/12/nt-wrights-vision-of-jesus-of-nazareth.html" rel="nofollow">the nature, the character, the vision, the vocation of this person whom it was proclaiming as Lord</a>, I think <em>that </em>proclamation, with <em>that</em> emphasis, would lead even the most egregious sinner to indeed say: <em>Euangelion!!</em><em></em> I know it did for this sinner. Grace and Peace, Raffi Trevin:

Yes, I agree that Piper’s arguments in Chapter 5 are perhaps the most significant vis-a-vis his overall critique of Wright. I look forward to your thoughts in Monday’s post. In anticipation of what will be discussed then, however, and as I’ve inidcated in my own post on the issue, when we ask ourselves why an individual sinner would ever hear the message that “Jesus is Lord” as euangelion, “good news,” the answer, I believes, lies in where you place the emphasis of the proclamation. If you hear the proclamation, as I believe Piper is stating it, as “Jesus is Lord” then you would rightfully see how a sinner would be terrified rather than elated. But look at it like this: “Jesus is Lord.” Given that the early Christian pronouncement of the gospel would have certainly contained a detailed description of the nature, the character, the vision, the vocation of this person whom it was proclaiming as Lord, I think that proclamation, with that emphasis, would lead even the most egregious sinner to indeed say: Euangelion!!
I know it did for this sinner.

Grace and Peace,
Raffi

]]> By: The Boar’s Head Tavern » http://thegospelcoalition.org/blogs/trevinwax/2007/12/08/future-of-justification-9-what-is-the-gospel-anyway/#comment-1396 The Boar’s Head Tavern » Sat, 08 Dec 2007 14:51:47 +0000 http://trevinwax.com/2007/12/08/future-of-justification-9-what-is-the-gospel-anyway/#comment-1396 [...] Wax continues his survey of Piper’s anti-Wright book, and is exploring the differences in understanding the Gospel. Piper believes that without justification by faith, the Lordship of Jesus is terrifying to [...] [...] Wax continues his survey of Piper’s anti-Wright book, and is exploring the differences in understanding the Gospel. Piper believes that without justification by faith, the Lordship of Jesus is terrifying to [...]

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