Comments on: Southern Seminary and Calvinism http://thegospelcoalition.org/blogs/trevinwax/2008/03/11/southern-seminary-and-calvinism/?utm_source=rss&utm_medium=rss&utm_campaign=southern-seminary-and-calvinism Kingdom People - Living on Earth as Citizens of Heaven Wed, 23 May 2012 23:18:34 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.2 By: Bibles and Bicycles Shops « Less Two Cars http://thegospelcoalition.org/blogs/trevinwax/2008/03/11/southern-seminary-and-calvinism/#comment-2071 Bibles and Bicycles Shops « Less Two Cars Fri, 04 Feb 2011 19:22:18 +0000 http://trevinwax.wordpress.com/?p=1042#comment-2071 [...] credit: this guy, my computer screen, and these [...] [...] credit: this guy, my computer screen, and these [...]

]]> By: Southern Baptists in the 21st Century « Kingdom People http://thegospelcoalition.org/blogs/trevinwax/2008/03/11/southern-seminary-and-calvinism/#comment-2070 Southern Baptists in the 21st Century « Kingdom People Mon, 22 Jun 2009 08:42:24 +0000 http://trevinwax.wordpress.com/?p=1042#comment-2070 [...] Southern Seminary and Calvinism (March 2008) [...] [...] Southern Seminary and Calvinism (March 2008) [...]

]]> By: Dr. James Willingham http://thegospelcoalition.org/blogs/trevinwax/2008/03/11/southern-seminary-and-calvinism/#comment-2069 Dr. James Willingham Sat, 27 Dec 2008 04:15:37 +0000 http://trevinwax.wordpress.com/?p=1042#comment-2069 It is truly sad to see splits over doctrine. The real aim is the Third Great Awakening, the one that reaches the whole earth in one generation and for a 1000 generations (after all see how many are the seed of Abraham by faith). NOW THE THEOLOGY OF THE FIRST AND SECOND GREAT AWAKENINGS WAS SOVEREIGN GRACE. THE SAME CAN BE SAID FOR THE THEOLOGY AT THE BEGINNING OF THE GREAT CENTURY OF MISSIONS. Most people who believe the doctrines of grace don't realize just how liberal and flexible and balanced and creative and winsome it really is. Look at Spurgeon;s Evening devotion for Dec. 24 and I quote: "We anticipate the happy day when the whole world shall be converted to Christ" And for Aug. 6, evening, on Ps.72:19, "For the cannibal as well as for the civilized, for all climes and races this prayer is uttered: the whole circle of th earth it encompasses, and omits no son of Adam. We must be up and doing for our Master, or we cannot honestly offer such a prayer." Hummnnn! velly interesting! One old fellow in KY once asked me: "have your ever thought that at any one time every last soul on the face of the earth could be the elect of God?" I had to answer no, and 7-8 yrs later in NC that question and Jonah 3 blew my eschatology all to pieces. The fellow I consider the wises man I ever met, and i quoted him in my M.A. thesis in American Social & Intellectual History on the subject, "The Baptists & Ministerial Qualiications: 1750-1850." My conclusion from such writings and years of intensive research led me to the conclusion that the real secret of the best and most winsome evangelism is the old sovereign grace teachings rightly understood and preached. As proof I offer all of the really great Baptists from 1720-1820. Along with them I offer all the Presbyterians, Congreationalists, Anglicans, Reformed, and others who held to such teachings in the best sense of the word. I actually know of a Presbyterian family whose ancestor was convered under George Whitefield. I also know of a Baptist Preacher whose ancestor was as the brother of the fellow just mentioned in the preceding sentence. He, too, was converted under Whitefield along with the mother of both men. I could go on, but let me also add that as Dr. Goen pointed out in his work on the Great Awakening 255 Congregational Churches became Baptists in that period. One of my friends preached in one of those churches...in the mid-1900s. Now, I do not have any confidence in manipulation or in trying to yank or force someone into my views. I like what one Spurgeon (a Southern Baptist ad a friend of mine) discovered. He won woman to Christ who told him why she responded so readily. She said, "Oh, it was so wonderful that I could not resist it." About 40 years later that Spurgeon came to agree with his more famous relative that grace was irresistible. That is the way it ought to be. This slam, bang, knock them over the head with a billy club is phoney baloney; it is not the appointed means to winning the day for our Lord Jesus. Just wait on Him, pray, be faithful, compassionate, and one of these days the whole world will get a glorious surprise in the most wonderfully winsome way that grace can muster. It is truly sad to see splits over doctrine. The real aim is the Third Great Awakening, the one that reaches the whole earth in one generation and for a 1000 generations (after all see how many are the seed of Abraham by faith). NOW THE THEOLOGY OF THE FIRST AND SECOND GREAT AWAKENINGS WAS SOVEREIGN GRACE. THE SAME CAN BE SAID FOR THE THEOLOGY AT THE BEGINNING OF THE GREAT CENTURY OF MISSIONS. Most people who believe the doctrines of grace don’t realize just how liberal and flexible and balanced and creative and winsome it really is. Look at Spurgeon;s Evening devotion for Dec. 24 and I quote: “We anticipate the happy day when the whole world shall be converted to Christ” And for Aug. 6, evening, on Ps.72:19, “For the cannibal as well as for the civilized, for all climes and races this prayer is uttered: the whole circle of th earth it encompasses, and omits no son of Adam. We must be up and doing for our Master, or we cannot honestly offer such a prayer.” Hummnnn! velly interesting! One old fellow in KY once asked me: “have your ever thought that at any one time every last soul on the face of the earth could be the elect of God?” I had to answer no, and 7-8 yrs later in NC that question and Jonah 3 blew my eschatology all to pieces. The fellow I consider the wises man I ever met, and i quoted him in my M.A. thesis in American Social & Intellectual History on the subject, “The Baptists & Ministerial Qualiications: 1750-1850.” My conclusion from such writings and years of intensive research led me to the conclusion that the real secret of the best and most winsome evangelism is the old sovereign grace teachings rightly understood and preached. As proof I offer all of the really great Baptists from 1720-1820. Along with them I offer all the Presbyterians, Congreationalists, Anglicans, Reformed, and others who held to such teachings in the best sense of the word. I actually know of a Presbyterian family whose ancestor was convered under George Whitefield. I also know of a Baptist Preacher whose ancestor was as the brother of the fellow just mentioned in the preceding sentence. He, too, was converted under Whitefield along with the mother of both men. I could go on, but let me also add that as Dr. Goen pointed out in his work on the Great Awakening 255 Congregational Churches became Baptists in that period. One of my friends preached in one of those churches…in the mid-1900s. Now, I do not have any confidence in manipulation or in trying to yank or force someone into my views. I like what one Spurgeon (a Southern Baptist ad a friend of mine) discovered. He won woman to Christ who told him why she responded so readily. She said, “Oh, it was so wonderful that I could not resist it.” About 40 years later that Spurgeon came to agree with his more famous relative that grace was irresistible. That is the way it ought to be. This slam, bang, knock them over the head with a billy club is phoney baloney; it is not the appointed means to winning the day for our Lord Jesus. Just wait on Him, pray, be faithful, compassionate, and one of these days the whole world will get a glorious surprise in the most wonderfully winsome way that grace can muster.

]]> By: Mike http://thegospelcoalition.org/blogs/trevinwax/2008/03/11/southern-seminary-and-calvinism/#comment-2068 Mike Wed, 03 Sep 2008 05:13:08 +0000 http://trevinwax.wordpress.com/?p=1042#comment-2068 Calvanist tried unsuccessfully to take over our church. They split off carrying a great number of non-calvanist with them through peer pressure. For God so loved the world that WHOSOEVER believeth in Him should not perish but have everlasting life. Calvanist tried unsuccessfully to take over our church. They split off carrying a great number of non-calvanist with them through peer pressure. For God so loved the world that WHOSOEVER believeth in Him should not perish but have everlasting life.

]]> By: Dr. James Willingham http://thegospelcoalition.org/blogs/trevinwax/2008/03/11/southern-seminary-and-calvinism/#comment-2067 Dr. James Willingham Mon, 16 Jun 2008 23:57:27 +0000 http://trevinwax.wordpress.com/?p=1042#comment-2067 Sirs: I read with interest your (Trevin's) article & the related comments. I was ordained to the ministry by a Supralapsarian, hyper-calvinist, and he would tell you so from the pulpit. He had a Ph.D. from Bob Jones and was the only legally required preacher for the funeral of Dr. Robert G. Lee. Dr. Lee put it in his will that Dr. Ernest R. Campbell was to preach his will. None of the other 4 ministers was in the will for that purpose. Dr. Campbell was evangelistic. He was on the committee of ministers of Columbia, SC who invited Billy Graham to conduct his next crusade after the first Los Angeles Crusade. He was also the founder & first president of the American Race Track Chaplaincy. He pastor many FBCs, including Hialeah. He was my oraining pastor at Calvary in St. Louis. I once preached a revival in a church in Georgia where he had preached some 30-40 years before. He had had 100 converts in that crusade. One of the converts in that revival had become a deacon in FBC Augusta by the time I preached there. He came to one of the services and I spoke with him about that revival. WHAT A LOT OF PEOPLE DON'T REALIZE IS THAT DR.CAMPBELL'S POSITION COULD BE MOST LIBERAL. In deed what a lot of people do not realize is that the Sovereign Grace preachers of Baptists from the 1640s-1820s were some of the most liberal, radical, etc. They could work with deists, etc. to secure religious liberty and be so winsome that George Washington would request and receive baptism at the hands of Rev. John Gano during the American Revolution witnessed by 60 people. Gano also preached on the same platform with Elder Shubal Stearns, and their cooperation set the stage for the union of the Separates & Regulars. And yes they were all believers in PARTICULAR REDEMPTION. THE EXCEPTION IN 1787 WAS MADE FOR SOME IN VIRGNIA, TO WIT, "that tTe preaching that Christ tasted death for ever man shall be no bar to communion." The reason for this was simply the text in Hebs.2:8 They really didn't know that it was speaking in context concerning those for whom He died. But they were able to do this due to a liberal mentality that comes from biblical orthodoxy which seeks to win people by persuasion from thE facts of truth & not by manipulation. THEY HAD THAT MUCH CONFIDENCE IN GOD. AND ALL OF THEIR DOCTRINES WERE AS DR. EUSELDEN (?) STATED IN HIS INTRO. TO HIS TRANSLATION OF WILLIAM AMES "MARROW OF DIVINITY" THAT PREDESTINATION IS AN INVITATION TO BEGIN ONE'S SPIRITUAL PILGRIMAGE. THAT IS TRUE OF ALL THE DOCTRINES OF GRACE INCLUDING REPROBATION, MT. 15:21-28. WHAT WE ARE GETTING READY FOR, I THINK (I DO NOT KNOW FOR SURE), IS THE THIRD GREAT AWAKENING WHICH SHALL COME TO THE WHOLE EARTH. I found in history that Peter Peterson Vanhorn & Benjamin Miller persuaded some general baptists in NC in 1755 to accept paticular redemption & Phila. Assn's position. 46 yrs later that group baptized 872 (1801). I have been praying for a great awakening, since 1973. Another minister I know has ben praying for one since the 50s. Gentlemen, I think, I hope, I pray, that it is coming. It will be both terrible & terrific. Get ready for some soul-stirring times and more. Sirs: I read with interest your (Trevin’s) article & the related comments. I was ordained to the ministry by a Supralapsarian, hyper-calvinist, and he would tell you so from the pulpit. He had a Ph.D. from Bob Jones and was the only legally required preacher for the funeral of Dr. Robert G. Lee. Dr. Lee put it in his will that Dr. Ernest R. Campbell was to preach his will. None of the other 4 ministers was in the will for that purpose. Dr. Campbell was evangelistic. He was on the committee of ministers of Columbia, SC who invited Billy Graham to conduct his next crusade after the first Los Angeles Crusade. He was also the founder & first president of the American Race Track Chaplaincy. He pastor many FBCs, including Hialeah. He was my oraining pastor at Calvary in St. Louis. I once preached a revival in a church in Georgia where he had preached some 30-40 years before. He had had 100 converts in that crusade. One of the converts in that revival had become a deacon in FBC Augusta by the time I preached there. He came to one of the services and I spoke with him about that revival. WHAT A LOT OF PEOPLE DON’T REALIZE IS THAT DR.CAMPBELL’S POSITION COULD BE MOST LIBERAL. In deed what a lot of people do not realize is that the Sovereign Grace preachers of Baptists from the 1640s-1820s were some of the most liberal, radical, etc. They could work with deists, etc. to secure religious liberty and be so winsome that George Washington would request and receive baptism at the hands of Rev. John Gano during the American Revolution witnessed by 60 people. Gano also preached on the same platform with Elder Shubal Stearns, and their cooperation set the stage for the union of the Separates & Regulars. And yes they were all believers in PARTICULAR REDEMPTION. THE EXCEPTION IN 1787 WAS MADE FOR SOME
IN VIRGNIA, TO WIT, “that tTe preaching that Christ tasted death for ever man shall be no bar to communion.” The reason for this was simply the text in Hebs.2:8 They really didn’t know that it was speaking in context concerning those for whom He died. But they were able to do this due to a liberal mentality that comes from biblical orthodoxy which seeks to win people by persuasion from thE facts of truth & not by manipulation. THEY HAD THAT MUCH CONFIDENCE IN GOD. AND ALL OF THEIR DOCTRINES WERE AS DR. EUSELDEN (?) STATED IN HIS INTRO. TO HIS TRANSLATION OF WILLIAM AMES “MARROW OF DIVINITY” THAT PREDESTINATION IS AN INVITATION TO BEGIN ONE’S SPIRITUAL PILGRIMAGE. THAT IS TRUE OF ALL THE DOCTRINES OF GRACE INCLUDING REPROBATION, MT. 15:21-28. WHAT WE ARE GETTING READY FOR, I THINK (I DO NOT KNOW FOR SURE), IS THE THIRD GREAT AWAKENING WHICH SHALL COME TO THE WHOLE EARTH. I found in history that Peter Peterson Vanhorn & Benjamin Miller persuaded some general baptists in NC in 1755 to accept paticular redemption & Phila. Assn’s position. 46 yrs later that group baptized 872 (1801). I have been praying for a great awakening, since 1973. Another minister I know has ben praying for one since the 50s. Gentlemen, I think, I hope, I pray, that it is coming. It will be both terrible & terrific.
Get ready for some soul-stirring times and more.

]]> By: The Truth About Calvinism & Southern Baptist Seminary Revealed | Said at Southern Seminary http://thegospelcoalition.org/blogs/trevinwax/2008/03/11/southern-seminary-and-calvinism/#comment-2049 The Truth About Calvinism & Southern Baptist Seminary Revealed | Said at Southern Seminary Sat, 05 Apr 2008 02:03:05 +0000 http://trevinwax.wordpress.com/?p=1042#comment-2049 [...] the Geneva of the Calvinist comeback? That question is still open for discussion, but consider some observations by Trevin [...] [...] the Geneva of the Calvinist comeback? That question is still open for discussion, but consider some observations by Trevin [...]

]]> By: Cal Wallace http://thegospelcoalition.org/blogs/trevinwax/2008/03/11/southern-seminary-and-calvinism/#comment-2064 Cal Wallace Thu, 20 Mar 2008 04:43:37 +0000 http://trevinwax.wordpress.com/?p=1042#comment-2064 Trevin, I pimped your post as a post on my blog (with due credits and links). Scott, I am an SEBTS grad too, but there is no need to take issue with Trevin over his "prestigious" comment. Brothers in Christ should be willing to give him the benefit of the doubt that he intended no ill by it. There is a question I have for you though. In your comment you stated, "What the...?" What does "..." represent? It wouldn't be some some kind of profane impure word that Scripture admonishes us not to let pass through our lips would it? Come now, let's take Philippians 4:8 to heart. Trevin,

I pimped your post as a post on my blog (with due credits and links).

Scott,

I am an SEBTS grad too, but there is no need to take issue with Trevin over his “prestigious” comment. Brothers in Christ should be willing to give him the benefit of the doubt that he intended no ill by it. There is a question I have for you though. In your comment you stated, “What the…?” What does “…” represent? It wouldn’t be some some kind of profane impure word that Scripture admonishes us not to let pass through our lips would it? Come now, let’s take Philippians 4:8 to heart.

]]> By: Andy Atkins http://thegospelcoalition.org/blogs/trevinwax/2008/03/11/southern-seminary-and-calvinism/#comment-2066 Andy Atkins Fri, 14 Mar 2008 17:03:37 +0000 http://trevinwax.wordpress.com/?p=1042#comment-2066 Trevin, It was a great experience for me to sit and listen to Dean Moore talk about Reformed Theology in January 2007. You're right on target. And regarding the "prestigious" comment - I, too, earned a degree at Southeastern before coming to Southern. I'll let you slide. - Andy Trevin,

It was a great experience for me to sit and listen to Dean Moore talk about Reformed Theology in January 2007. You’re right on target.

And regarding the “prestigious” comment – I, too, earned a degree at Southeastern before coming to Southern. I’ll let you slide.

- Andy

]]> By: celucien joseph http://thegospelcoalition.org/blogs/trevinwax/2008/03/11/southern-seminary-and-calvinism/#comment-2065 celucien joseph Fri, 14 Mar 2008 00:10:25 +0000 http://trevinwax.wordpress.com/?p=1042#comment-2065 Trevin, Good post! I graduated from Southern 2 years ago. I've never considered myself a 5 point calvinist, although I've come close in becoming one:) Blessings, Lou Trevin,

Good post! I graduated from Southern 2 years ago. I’ve never considered myself a 5 point calvinist, although I’ve come close in becoming one:)

Blessings,
Lou

]]> By: Frank Turk http://thegospelcoalition.org/blogs/trevinwax/2008/03/11/southern-seminary-and-calvinism/#comment-2063 Frank Turk Wed, 12 Mar 2008 01:51:10 +0000 http://trevinwax.wordpress.com/?p=1042#comment-2063 More beer-drinking will create more calvinists -- in name at least. More beer-drinking will create more calvinists — in name at least.

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