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	<title>Comments on: In the Blogosphere</title>
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	<description>Kingdom People - Living on Earth as Citizens of Heaven</description>
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		<title>By: Deidra</title>
		<link>http://thegospelcoalition.org/blogs/trevinwax/2009/02/13/in-the-blogosphere-94/#comment-4115</link>
		<dc:creator>Deidra</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 15 Feb 2009 18:43:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://trevinwax.com/?p=2866#comment-4115</guid>
		<description>I&#039;m not sure what I think about the Rob Bell article. While I&#039;m sure Rob hasn&#039;t been treated well by some in the evangelical community, anyone with a grasp of theology has to question Rob&#039;s teachings. My husband and I used to attend Mars HIlls. A few years later, we stepped out into full time ministry. In that time, our views of Rob&#039;s teaching has changed drastically as we have continued to follow his ministry and writing and have seen first-hand how it is impacting churches. We feel Rob himself has changed drastically over the years and this has morphed his teaching into more a a jewish mystic &quot;spirituality&quot; than true bibilcal teaching. His views on atonement and being in the &quot;way of Jesus&quot;...(this phrase is ALL over the Mars Hill website), are not biblical. While inspiring many to get involved in social justice, his underlying teaching is off...which makes his teaching very dangerous and confusing.

Mars Hill really caters to people who have been burned by legalism and by biblically sound churches who don&#039;t live out their theology (knowledge without spirit). It&#039;s all about accepting people as they are...which is wonderful...but the tricky part here is that this &quot;everyone come&quot; approach&quot;- which we SHOULD have, doesn&#039;t take it any further. It&#039;s about LOVE...right? Well...true...but how can you really say you LOVE someone if you aren&#039;t pointing them to the GOSPEL. Depravity, GRACE, repentance and regeneration....not language used at Mars Hill, or in Rob&#039; teaching. This is what makes Rob such a controversial pastor. There is this, &quot;He&#039;s not hurting anyone...if anything, look at all Mars Hill is doing in the world!&quot; mentality...which is true...on the other hand, what about the problem of SIN? You can&#039;t just walk in the WAY of Jesus...Jesus IS the WAY! Subtle...yet it&#039;s there. We in the Christian faith seem to function on sweeping pendulum swings. We are constantly throwing the baby out with the bath water. We cannot abandon sound doctrine because we need to be more active in the world...we need BOTH.

As far as Rob&#039;s talk on forgiveness, etc...this is another hard pill for me to swallow....mainly because I feel like he hides behind the verse: &quot;judge not lest ye be judged&quot; (Matt. 7:1).  This  verse is SO often taken out of context though...I Corinthians 5:1 says- 13 God judges [2] those outside. “Purge the evil person from among you.”...There IS a place to hold influential pastors and leaders to biblical standards. It&#039;s NOT correct to attack someone&#039;s character, etc., but the bible clearly states that we need to be watchful for false teaching. If not, we would be sheep without protection...Satan roams like a &quot;roaring lion&quot;... we need to admonish and protect the flock. I don&#039;t condone hate mail, death threats, slander (and I have no DOUBT that he&#039;s received these things...)...but truly...why can&#039;t Rob respond to some of the more respectable leaders who have taught against his teaching? I have yet to see a willingness on his part to explain himself. It seems like he is playing this meek, white flag card. This of course demonizes anyone who has true spiritual concern for his teaching and those who eat up every word. Those people are made out to be unaccepting jerks who may be suffering from jealousy, or a multitude of other problems...there&#039;s actually quite an arrogance about it if you have actually been involved with the church such as we have. There&#039;s this whole, &quot;beware of the Wolves&quot; thing Rob has going...which I find ironic, since many would paint Rob himself as a potential wolf himself..

Also, his prescription of Naming, Accepting, and Absorbing doesn&#039;t set well either. It&#039;s seems more pseudo-psycology than anything else. While there will be times when we have to &quot;absorb&quot; in a sense of turning the other cheek, I fear that he is using valid admonshing concern about his teaching and twisting it into an argument in an attept to prove that he&#039;s not the one with the problem...everyone else has the problem mentality. The hardship that comes  with being in the limelight is having to deal with critique...I believe this is true. However, as I said before, there have been people who have lovingly questioned his teaching without ripping him a part, and they have been virtually ignored and lumped in with the &quot;wolves&quot; as Rob would say.

 As far as forgiveness, christian literature of this generation is FULL of pop-psycology influenced ideas about what forgiveness even is by definition..... forgiveness among believers involves a &quot;commitment by the offended to pardon graciously the repentant from moral liability and to be reconciled to that person, although not all consequences are necessarily eliminated.&quot; (Chris Brauns from &quot;Unpacking Forgiveness- biblical answers for complex questions and deep wounds&quot;). If we are in community with people who have offended us, we can&#039;t just absorb...we need to confront it and take steps to work through it by the grace of GOd. If we are criticized by people across the county that we&#039;ve never met, this is a different scenario... Though I recognize how it must hurt for people in leadership positions, we can&#039;t just make a blanket statement that all hurt must be simply absorbed....Freedom in Christ comes AFTER repentance from SIN! This is true in the case of altercations between believers as well. Forgive as God forgives...  We ALL have responsibility in this!

Again, like much of Rob&#039;s teaching, this article only confirms to me that it is full of truth...and half truth....but even one drop of poison ruins the drink .... we must stop the slanderous bashing....but we truly should also pray for biblically discerning minds. Our world needs the TRUE GOSPEL, and we pray that we can unite to preach this message everywhere.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m not sure what I think about the Rob Bell article. While I&#8217;m sure Rob hasn&#8217;t been treated well by some in the evangelical community, anyone with a grasp of theology has to question Rob&#8217;s teachings. My husband and I used to attend Mars HIlls. A few years later, we stepped out into full time ministry. In that time, our views of Rob&#8217;s teaching has changed drastically as we have continued to follow his ministry and writing and have seen first-hand how it is impacting churches. We feel Rob himself has changed drastically over the years and this has morphed his teaching into more a a jewish mystic &#8220;spirituality&#8221; than true bibilcal teaching. His views on atonement and being in the &#8220;way of Jesus&#8221;&#8230;(this phrase is ALL over the Mars Hill website), are not biblical. While inspiring many to get involved in social justice, his underlying teaching is off&#8230;which makes his teaching very dangerous and confusing.</p>
<p>Mars Hill really caters to people who have been burned by legalism and by biblically sound churches who don&#8217;t live out their theology (knowledge without spirit). It&#8217;s all about accepting people as they are&#8230;which is wonderful&#8230;but the tricky part here is that this &#8220;everyone come&#8221; approach&#8221;- which we SHOULD have, doesn&#8217;t take it any further. It&#8217;s about LOVE&#8230;right? Well&#8230;true&#8230;but how can you really say you LOVE someone if you aren&#8217;t pointing them to the GOSPEL. Depravity, GRACE, repentance and regeneration&#8230;.not language used at Mars Hill, or in Rob&#8217; teaching. This is what makes Rob such a controversial pastor. There is this, &#8220;He&#8217;s not hurting anyone&#8230;if anything, look at all Mars Hill is doing in the world!&#8221; mentality&#8230;which is true&#8230;on the other hand, what about the problem of SIN? You can&#8217;t just walk in the WAY of Jesus&#8230;Jesus IS the WAY! Subtle&#8230;yet it&#8217;s there. We in the Christian faith seem to function on sweeping pendulum swings. We are constantly throwing the baby out with the bath water. We cannot abandon sound doctrine because we need to be more active in the world&#8230;we need BOTH.</p>
<p>As far as Rob&#8217;s talk on forgiveness, etc&#8230;this is another hard pill for me to swallow&#8230;.mainly because I feel like he hides behind the verse: &#8220;judge not lest ye be judged&#8221; (Matt. 7:1).  This  verse is SO often taken out of context though&#8230;I Corinthians 5:1 says- 13 God judges [2] those outside. “Purge the evil person from among you.”&#8230;There IS a place to hold influential pastors and leaders to biblical standards. It&#8217;s NOT correct to attack someone&#8217;s character, etc., but the bible clearly states that we need to be watchful for false teaching. If not, we would be sheep without protection&#8230;Satan roams like a &#8220;roaring lion&#8221;&#8230; we need to admonish and protect the flock. I don&#8217;t condone hate mail, death threats, slander (and I have no DOUBT that he&#8217;s received these things&#8230;)&#8230;but truly&#8230;why can&#8217;t Rob respond to some of the more respectable leaders who have taught against his teaching? I have yet to see a willingness on his part to explain himself. It seems like he is playing this meek, white flag card. This of course demonizes anyone who has true spiritual concern for his teaching and those who eat up every word. Those people are made out to be unaccepting jerks who may be suffering from jealousy, or a multitude of other problems&#8230;there&#8217;s actually quite an arrogance about it if you have actually been involved with the church such as we have. There&#8217;s this whole, &#8220;beware of the Wolves&#8221; thing Rob has going&#8230;which I find ironic, since many would paint Rob himself as a potential wolf himself..</p>
<p>Also, his prescription of Naming, Accepting, and Absorbing doesn&#8217;t set well either. It&#8217;s seems more pseudo-psycology than anything else. While there will be times when we have to &#8220;absorb&#8221; in a sense of turning the other cheek, I fear that he is using valid admonshing concern about his teaching and twisting it into an argument in an attept to prove that he&#8217;s not the one with the problem&#8230;everyone else has the problem mentality. The hardship that comes  with being in the limelight is having to deal with critique&#8230;I believe this is true. However, as I said before, there have been people who have lovingly questioned his teaching without ripping him a part, and they have been virtually ignored and lumped in with the &#8220;wolves&#8221; as Rob would say.</p>
<p> As far as forgiveness, christian literature of this generation is FULL of pop-psycology influenced ideas about what forgiveness even is by definition&#8230;.. forgiveness among believers involves a &#8220;commitment by the offended to pardon graciously the repentant from moral liability and to be reconciled to that person, although not all consequences are necessarily eliminated.&#8221; (Chris Brauns from &#8220;Unpacking Forgiveness- biblical answers for complex questions and deep wounds&#8221;). If we are in community with people who have offended us, we can&#8217;t just absorb&#8230;we need to confront it and take steps to work through it by the grace of GOd. If we are criticized by people across the county that we&#8217;ve never met, this is a different scenario&#8230; Though I recognize how it must hurt for people in leadership positions, we can&#8217;t just make a blanket statement that all hurt must be simply absorbed&#8230;.Freedom in Christ comes AFTER repentance from SIN! This is true in the case of altercations between believers as well. Forgive as God forgives&#8230;  We ALL have responsibility in this!</p>
<p>Again, like much of Rob&#8217;s teaching, this article only confirms to me that it is full of truth&#8230;and half truth&#8230;.but even one drop of poison ruins the drink &#8230;. we must stop the slanderous bashing&#8230;.but we truly should also pray for biblically discerning minds. Our world needs the TRUE GOSPEL, and we pray that we can unite to preach this message everywhere.</p>
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		<title>By: Hey Mr Wilson! &#171; Words</title>
		<link>http://thegospelcoalition.org/blogs/trevinwax/2009/02/13/in-the-blogosphere-94/#comment-4116</link>
		<dc:creator>Hey Mr Wilson! &#171; Words</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 13 Feb 2009 17:12:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://trevinwax.com/?p=2866#comment-4116</guid>
		<description>[...] 13, 2009 by E1st    My man Trevin Wax has led me to green pastures once again. I had never heard of Douglas Wilson, but NT Wright is so [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] 13, 2009 by E1st    My man Trevin Wax has led me to green pastures once again. I had never heard of Douglas Wilson, but NT Wright is so [...]</p>
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