Comments on: Kingdom Now and Not Yet http://thegospelcoalition.org/blogs/trevinwax/2009/04/07/kingdom-now-and-not-yet/?utm_source=rss&utm_medium=rss&utm_campaign=kingdom-now-and-not-yet Kingdom People - Living on Earth as Citizens of Heaven Thu, 24 May 2012 20:05:17 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.2 By: Ron MacDonald http://thegospelcoalition.org/blogs/trevinwax/2009/04/07/kingdom-now-and-not-yet/#comment-4587 Ron MacDonald Thu, 01 Sep 2011 16:51:52 +0000 http://trevinwax.com/?p=2925#comment-4587 Doctor Foltz: I am surprised at this perspective concerning hermeneutics. Should one then see interpreting parables as "spiritualizing" the word, especially in Mat 13:34 as we are told that Jesus described "The Kingdom" in that usual manner? Not that I would necessarily disagree with the perspective about Israel, but the dogmatic "CAPS" seem rather academically arrogant. (ref: 2 yrs old but issues here even more relevant.) Doctor Foltz: I am surprised at this perspective concerning hermeneutics. Should one then see interpreting parables as “spiritualizing” the word, especially in Mat 13:34 as we are told that Jesus described “The Kingdom” in that usual manner? Not that I would necessarily disagree with the perspective about Israel, but the dogmatic “CAPS” seem rather academically arrogant. (ref: 2 yrs old but issues here even more relevant.)

]]> By: Gospel ladds | Divine1travelers http://thegospelcoalition.org/blogs/trevinwax/2009/04/07/kingdom-now-and-not-yet/#comment-4586 Gospel ladds | Divine1travelers Sat, 28 May 2011 04:34:29 +0000 http://trevinwax.com/?p=2925#comment-4586 [...] Kingdom Now and Not Yet : Kingdom PeopleLadd was an especially able contributor to Gold City’s sound since he was able to sing both the traditional Southern Gospel tenor, … I have been a big fan of Steve Ladds for many years, back to when he and Jeff Chapman were the “bookends” for the Anchormen. My favorite song of Steve’s was “Preach the Word”, [...] [...] Kingdom Now and Not Yet : Kingdom PeopleLadd was an especially able contributor to Gold City’s sound since he was able to sing both the traditional Southern Gospel tenor, … I have been a big fan of Steve Ladds for many years, back to when he and Jeff Chapman were the “bookends” for the Anchormen. My favorite song of Steve’s was “Preach the Word”, [...]

]]> By: Trevin Wax http://thegospelcoalition.org/blogs/trevinwax/2009/04/07/kingdom-now-and-not-yet/#comment-4585 Trevin Wax Sat, 02 Jan 2010 20:27:58 +0000 http://trevinwax.com/?p=2925#comment-4585 Yes, Doug. Ladd's book excels at being thorough and also very accessible. Yes, Doug. Ladd’s book excels at being thorough and also very accessible.

]]> By: Doug http://thegospelcoalition.org/blogs/trevinwax/2009/04/07/kingdom-now-and-not-yet/#comment-4584 Doug Sat, 02 Jan 2010 16:40:46 +0000 http://trevinwax.com/?p=2925#comment-4584 Great post Trevin. I read this book for the first time a couple years ago and it blew my mind. As strange as it may seem I had never understood the reality of already/not yet in as clear a fashion as after reading this book. I agree with your assessment. Great post Trevin. I read this book for the first time a couple years ago and it blew my mind. As strange as it may seem I had never understood the reality of already/not yet in as clear a fashion as after reading this book. I agree with your assessment.

]]> By: dave http://thegospelcoalition.org/blogs/trevinwax/2009/04/07/kingdom-now-and-not-yet/#comment-4583 dave Fri, 06 Nov 2009 07:30:16 +0000 http://trevinwax.com/?p=2925#comment-4583 Well there certainly are soem interesting comments and ideas here. Just to add some to the mix I recomend Bill Johnson's book when heaven invades earth... a great read on the subject of the Kingdom. Well there certainly are soem interesting comments and ideas here. Just to add some to the mix I recomend Bill Johnson’s book when heaven invades earth… a great read on the subject of the Kingdom.

]]> By: Kingdom People - April 2009 « Kingdom People http://thegospelcoalition.org/blogs/trevinwax/2009/04/07/kingdom-now-and-not-yet/#comment-4582 Kingdom People - April 2009 « Kingdom People Thu, 30 Apr 2009 08:18:39 +0000 http://trevinwax.com/?p=2925#comment-4582 [...] Jesus - Nick Perrin Fasting - Scot McKnight The God I Don’t Understand - Christopher Wright The Gospel of the Kingdom - G.E. Ladd Godology - Christian George W.H. Whitsitt: The Man and the Controversy - James [...] [...] Jesus – Nick Perrin Fasting – Scot McKnight The God I Don’t Understand – Christopher Wright The Gospel of the Kingdom – G.E. Ladd Godology – Christian George W.H. Whitsitt: The Man and the Controversy – James [...]

]]> By: gary http://thegospelcoalition.org/blogs/trevinwax/2009/04/07/kingdom-now-and-not-yet/#comment-4569 gary Fri, 10 Apr 2009 23:48:53 +0000 http://trevinwax.com/?p=2925#comment-4569 Hi Steve, I see you are grappling with the issue here. I cetainly think that it's a false distinction to speak of Kingdom as rule but Not realm as Ladd suggested as I think it does not come to grips with the Bibles teaching on this matter. God is Sovereign of all. A god who is not so Sovereign is not the God of the Bible. Yet that Sovereignty is not merely rule but realm as well - because of Whom God is - Then we must ask what is the coming of the Kingdom, the preaching of the Kingdom, the news of the Kingdom that Jesus preached and John the Baptist preached as His forrunner? I agree it has to do with that realm promised to Israel, and since gentiles can now through the cross be properly related to Jesus they can enter that kingdom by the king! One thing we need to do is more homework and not settle for sound bites. Graham Goldsworthy's definition of kingdom as God's people in God's place under God's rule, is perhaps a helpful reminder but that needs solid "fleshing out". We also can't settle only for some spiritual kingdom when it's clear from Jesus' teaching etc that it has to do with the earth. in Christ, Gary Hi Steve,
I see you are grappling with the issue here. I cetainly think that it’s a false distinction to speak of Kingdom as rule but Not realm as Ladd suggested as I think it does not come to grips with the Bibles teaching on this matter. God is Sovereign of all. A god who is not so Sovereign is not the God of the Bible. Yet that Sovereignty is not merely rule but realm as well – because of Whom God is – Then we must ask what is the coming of the Kingdom, the preaching of the Kingdom, the news of the Kingdom that Jesus preached and John the Baptist preached as His forrunner?

I agree it has to do with that realm promised to Israel, and since gentiles can now through the cross be properly related to Jesus they can enter that kingdom by the king!

One thing we need to do is more homework and not settle for sound bites. Graham Goldsworthy’s definition of kingdom as God’s people in God’s place under God’s rule, is perhaps a helpful reminder but that needs solid “fleshing out”. We also can’t settle only for some spiritual kingdom when it’s clear from Jesus’ teaching etc that it has to do with the earth.

in Christ,
Gary

]]> By: Steve D. http://thegospelcoalition.org/blogs/trevinwax/2009/04/07/kingdom-now-and-not-yet/#comment-4568 Steve D. Fri, 10 Apr 2009 19:20:20 +0000 http://trevinwax.com/?p=2925#comment-4568 Ladd's writings on the Kingdom helped me get over some faulty thinking that stemmed from my Dispensational roots. Ridderbos' book on the Kingdom was also helpful. However, regarding realm and rule, he made a helpful distinction, at least for me: "The Old Testament speaks of a general and a particular kind of kingship of the Lord. The former concerns the universal power and dominion of God over the whole world and all the nations, and is founded in the creation of heaven and earth. The latter denotes the special relations between the Lord and Israel." page 4 of The Coming of the Kingdom I take the universal power and dominion of God over the whole world and all the nations to be referring to the Kingdom in terms of realm. Of course, both have to do with rule, so it may be an unnecessary distinction. I am still working through all of this, but I find it difficult to say the kingdom is rule but not realm in any sense at all. Ladd’s writings on the Kingdom helped me get over some faulty thinking that stemmed from my Dispensational roots. Ridderbos’ book on the Kingdom was also helpful. However, regarding realm and rule, he made a helpful distinction, at least for me: “The Old Testament speaks of a general and a particular kind of kingship of the Lord. The former concerns the universal power and dominion of God over the whole world and all the nations, and is founded in the creation of heaven and earth. The latter denotes the special relations between the Lord and Israel.” page 4 of The Coming of the Kingdom

I take the universal power and dominion of God over the whole world and all the nations to be referring to the Kingdom in terms of realm. Of course, both have to do with rule, so it may be an unnecessary distinction. I am still working through all of this, but I find it difficult to say the kingdom is rule but not realm in any sense at all.

]]> By: Michael http://thegospelcoalition.org/blogs/trevinwax/2009/04/07/kingdom-now-and-not-yet/#comment-4573 Michael Thu, 09 Apr 2009 07:26:14 +0000 http://trevinwax.com/?p=2925#comment-4573 The book is available via Google scholar see http://books.google.co.za/books?id=_8afkLJ1WLoC The book is available via Google scholar see http://books.google.co.za/books?id=_8afkLJ1WLoC

]]> By: gary wearne http://thegospelcoalition.org/blogs/trevinwax/2009/04/07/kingdom-now-and-not-yet/#comment-4575 gary wearne Wed, 08 Apr 2009 21:46:52 +0000 http://trevinwax.com/?p=2925#comment-4575 Thanks Mark, luke 17:21 is extremely important about the Kingdom isn't it. I take it we understand the "within you" is to be taken as not "inside" the pharisees, who were in the main disobedient to God but rather in their midst, in the presence of the King, Jesus. This tells us that Jesus is the ruler, but my point is the problem of divorcing rule from realm as so many do. Does realm mean merely a group of people, or is it over a land as well? Secondly, is luke 17:21 telling us the when and where of the Kingdom? Jesus is again confronting the pharisees with their hardened hearts towards God with the reality that here in their midst is the expected Messiah, the King of the Kingdom. Their rejection of this Kingdom, by rejecting the King meant that the nation Israel would have to wait for a later time for their King.The previous story of the 10 healed of leprosy but only a foreigner a samaritan gives thanks to God, shows the importance of faith and is an indictment upon the pharisees. It's all about responding to the Messiah, the King of the Kingdom which they don't do. And soon the King will leave, and suffer.. vs 22-25. In Christ Gary Thanks Mark,
luke 17:21 is extremely important about the Kingdom isn’t it. I take it we understand the “within you” is to be taken as not “inside” the pharisees, who were in the main disobedient to God but rather in their midst, in the presence of the King, Jesus. This tells us that Jesus is the ruler, but my point is the problem of divorcing rule from realm as so many do.
Does realm mean merely a group of people, or is it over a land as well?

Secondly, is luke 17:21 telling us the when and where of the Kingdom? Jesus is again confronting the pharisees with their hardened hearts towards God with the reality that here in their midst is the expected Messiah, the King of the Kingdom. Their rejection of this Kingdom, by rejecting the King meant that the nation Israel would have to wait for a later time for their King.The previous story of the 10 healed of leprosy but only a foreigner a samaritan gives thanks to God, shows the importance of faith and is an indictment upon the pharisees. It’s all about responding to the Messiah, the King of the Kingdom which they don’t do. And soon the King will leave, and suffer.. vs 22-25.

In Christ
Gary

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