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	<title>Comments on: Personal Reflections on the Canaanite Conquest</title>
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	<description>Kingdom People - Living on Earth as Citizens of Heaven</description>
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		<title>By: Cliff Tan</title>
		<link>http://thegospelcoalition.org/blogs/trevinwax/2009/05/28/personal-reflections-on-the-canaanite-conquest/#comment-4851</link>
		<dc:creator>Cliff Tan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 15 Jul 2009 19:02:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://trevinwax.com/?p=3410#comment-4851</guid>
		<description>First, thank you for this set of balanced, helpful blog posts on this book.

I am studying through Joshua this Summer and just came to Chapter 6, which is where my contemplation and Web search led to you.

It seems to me an even more basic question than eschatology is what are the underlying premises of many of these types of questions that have to do with God killing babies (these would include my own troubled questions), which is an underlying complaint that God does not live up to His own standards.  E.g., I had previously trolled through one section of mereatheism.com and thought if we were to judge events by whatever we individually believe are right standards, we&#039;d get nowhere at all.  You can just as easily decide God is capricious, unfair and even evil (and hence dismiss God altogether) by your standards as I could defend God by mine.

This might be a restatement of the tension between understanding how God is love and how God is righteous, but I think it goes more deeply.  I think we might start answering our questions by asking what is the underlying premise in our hearts when we ask?  That would force us to decide and accept what God really teaches in Scripture about what His views of right and wrong are.  And then, and here I think this is unusual for American culture, we might force ourselves to delve more into the realities of evil.  We tend to recoil from so much reflexively without really understanding the essence of what we abhor - poverty, hunger and, yes, even genocide.  I have no doubt the details of genocide are terrible, excruciating.  But then we have to decide if the realities of an event in and of itself make it wrong - the teleogical view if I remember my college philosophy class correctly.

I say all this without having come to a firm conclusion myself; they&#039;re just notes along the way.

By the way, I am not convinced that brief mention in the NT is any evidence that NT writers did not think these questions serious.  By nature, we tend to ignore and downplay the horrendous, even in our writings, so the fact that little evidence exists doesn&#039;t mean it wasn&#039;t and isn&#039;t important.  If anything, Jesus&#039;s grieving over Jerusalem might be the best evidence that God abhors genocide, too.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>First, thank you for this set of balanced, helpful blog posts on this book.</p>
<p>I am studying through Joshua this Summer and just came to Chapter 6, which is where my contemplation and Web search led to you.</p>
<p>It seems to me an even more basic question than eschatology is what are the underlying premises of many of these types of questions that have to do with God killing babies (these would include my own troubled questions), which is an underlying complaint that God does not live up to His own standards.  E.g., I had previously trolled through one section of mereatheism.com and thought if we were to judge events by whatever we individually believe are right standards, we&#8217;d get nowhere at all.  You can just as easily decide God is capricious, unfair and even evil (and hence dismiss God altogether) by your standards as I could defend God by mine.</p>
<p>This might be a restatement of the tension between understanding how God is love and how God is righteous, but I think it goes more deeply.  I think we might start answering our questions by asking what is the underlying premise in our hearts when we ask?  That would force us to decide and accept what God really teaches in Scripture about what His views of right and wrong are.  And then, and here I think this is unusual for American culture, we might force ourselves to delve more into the realities of evil.  We tend to recoil from so much reflexively without really understanding the essence of what we abhor &#8211; poverty, hunger and, yes, even genocide.  I have no doubt the details of genocide are terrible, excruciating.  But then we have to decide if the realities of an event in and of itself make it wrong &#8211; the teleogical view if I remember my college philosophy class correctly.</p>
<p>I say all this without having come to a firm conclusion myself; they&#8217;re just notes along the way.</p>
<p>By the way, I am not convinced that brief mention in the NT is any evidence that NT writers did not think these questions serious.  By nature, we tend to ignore and downplay the horrendous, even in our writings, so the fact that little evidence exists doesn&#8217;t mean it wasn&#8217;t and isn&#8217;t important.  If anything, Jesus&#8217;s grieving over Jerusalem might be the best evidence that God abhors genocide, too.</p>
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		<title>By: Biff</title>
		<link>http://thegospelcoalition.org/blogs/trevinwax/2009/05/28/personal-reflections-on-the-canaanite-conquest/#comment-4852</link>
		<dc:creator>Biff</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 04 Jun 2009 04:15:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://trevinwax.com/?p=3410#comment-4852</guid>
		<description>Trevin, Nice series. Those are tough questions for anyone to wrestle with. Of course, it goes without saying that I have never read the book, or even heard of the contributors. The history of the early tribal league is one of the most interesting parts of the Bible to me though. My take on it is somewhat different than yours. I imagine in large part due to my differing beliefs. Since I am not approaching the subject from the same perspective, I have no problems questioning the historical content.

I do not imagine that the slaughter described in some of the narratives ever took place exactly as described. The Bible itself is pretty clear that the accounts were very rough estimates, to say the very least. It is also pretty clear that there were enough people left to retake some areas, and to shape the development of the kingdom for centuries. In some of the earlier narratives, even the epitaph for God was apparently &quot;borrowed&quot; from the very people that were supposed to be destroyed. I do not remember exactly where you stand on Biblical authority, but this may be one area that is much easier to accept that the human hand aided in the development of the Bible, particularly a human hand with more than a passing interest in praising God...anyway, I enjoyed the topic.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Trevin, Nice series. Those are tough questions for anyone to wrestle with. Of course, it goes without saying that I have never read the book, or even heard of the contributors. The history of the early tribal league is one of the most interesting parts of the Bible to me though. My take on it is somewhat different than yours. I imagine in large part due to my differing beliefs. Since I am not approaching the subject from the same perspective, I have no problems questioning the historical content.</p>
<p>I do not imagine that the slaughter described in some of the narratives ever took place exactly as described. The Bible itself is pretty clear that the accounts were very rough estimates, to say the very least. It is also pretty clear that there were enough people left to retake some areas, and to shape the development of the kingdom for centuries. In some of the earlier narratives, even the epitaph for God was apparently &#8220;borrowed&#8221; from the very people that were supposed to be destroyed. I do not remember exactly where you stand on Biblical authority, but this may be one area that is much easier to accept that the human hand aided in the development of the Bible, particularly a human hand with more than a passing interest in praising God&#8230;anyway, I enjoyed the topic.</p>
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		<title>By: Kingdom People &#8211; May 2009 &#171; Kingdom People</title>
		<link>http://thegospelcoalition.org/blogs/trevinwax/2009/05/28/personal-reflections-on-the-canaanite-conquest/#comment-4853</link>
		<dc:creator>Kingdom People &#8211; May 2009 &#171; Kingdom People</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 31 May 2009 08:33:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://trevinwax.com/?p=3410#comment-4853</guid>
		<description>[...] Show Them No Mercy: Four Views of God and Canaanite Genocide Introduction One Way of Dealing with the Canaanite Conquest Other Ways of Dealing with the Canaanite Conquest Personal Reflections on the Canaanite Conquest [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Show Them No Mercy: Four Views of God and Canaanite Genocide Introduction One Way of Dealing with the Canaanite Conquest Other Ways of Dealing with the Canaanite Conquest Personal Reflections on the Canaanite Conquest [...]</p>
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		<title>By: In the Blogosphere &#171; Kingdom People</title>
		<link>http://thegospelcoalition.org/blogs/trevinwax/2009/05/28/personal-reflections-on-the-canaanite-conquest/#comment-4854</link>
		<dc:creator>In the Blogosphere &#171; Kingdom People</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 29 May 2009 08:13:35 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>[...] Post this Week at Kingdom People: Personal Reflections on the Canaanite Conquest    Comments [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Post this Week at Kingdom People: Personal Reflections on the Canaanite Conquest    Comments [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Chris Brauns</title>
		<link>http://thegospelcoalition.org/blogs/trevinwax/2009/05/28/personal-reflections-on-the-canaanite-conquest/#comment-4857</link>
		<dc:creator>Chris Brauns</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 28 May 2009 14:23:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://trevinwax.com/?p=3410#comment-4857</guid>
		<description>Justin, I agree with the earlier comment that Chris Wright&#039;s book, The God I Don&#039;t Understand, is a good resource.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Justin, I agree with the earlier comment that Chris Wright&#8217;s book, The God I Don&#8217;t Understand, is a good resource.</p>
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		<title>By: Justin</title>
		<link>http://thegospelcoalition.org/blogs/trevinwax/2009/05/28/personal-reflections-on-the-canaanite-conquest/#comment-4856</link>
		<dc:creator>Justin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 28 May 2009 14:21:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://trevinwax.com/?p=3410#comment-4856</guid>
		<description>Thanks for this series.  I&#039;ve been wanting to read the book, but have not had the opportunity yet, and it&#039;s good to get a distillation of them.  You finish the post by asking if this was a question the early church asked, and I don&#039;t know the answer to that, but I do know that non-believers and Christians are asking it today, and that alone makes it relevant to be prepared in season and out of season.  My father in law just a few weeks ago expressed his concern with the conquest.  He is a non-believer and has a number of questions that need answered to help overcome his barriers, and this is one of them.  I hope to be able to share some of what I&#039;ve read from your review with him.  And let us all keep pressing in to better understand and articulate a Biblical theology of the conquests.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks for this series.  I&#8217;ve been wanting to read the book, but have not had the opportunity yet, and it&#8217;s good to get a distillation of them.  You finish the post by asking if this was a question the early church asked, and I don&#8217;t know the answer to that, but I do know that non-believers and Christians are asking it today, and that alone makes it relevant to be prepared in season and out of season.  My father in law just a few weeks ago expressed his concern with the conquest.  He is a non-believer and has a number of questions that need answered to help overcome his barriers, and this is one of them.  I hope to be able to share some of what I&#8217;ve read from your review with him.  And let us all keep pressing in to better understand and articulate a Biblical theology of the conquests.</p>
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		<title>By: Chris Brauns</title>
		<link>http://thegospelcoalition.org/blogs/trevinwax/2009/05/28/personal-reflections-on-the-canaanite-conquest/#comment-4855</link>
		<dc:creator>Chris Brauns</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 28 May 2009 13:03:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://trevinwax.com/?p=3410#comment-4855</guid>
		<description>Thanks for these posts.  The more difficult aspect for me is the children.  I agree that God sometimes judges the wicked now.  He does that in his own time table or reasons sufficient unto himself.  Take the most most vile man in Jericho.  I accept that God chose to wait until his appointed time to dispense justice, and that the man was involved in a lot of wickedness prior to that time.

But, I find it more difficult that the children died as well in Jericho, or that the babies outside the ark drowned.  What does it look like to kill every child in Jericho?

Of course, I think any tensions I feel with this biblical truth, or any other, are my problems and not that of truth.  And, I think my problem here is that I think too much in Western individualist terms, whereas the reality is that we are not islands unto ourselves, but are roped to people around us.

Thanks for this series of posts.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks for these posts.  The more difficult aspect for me is the children.  I agree that God sometimes judges the wicked now.  He does that in his own time table or reasons sufficient unto himself.  Take the most most vile man in Jericho.  I accept that God chose to wait until his appointed time to dispense justice, and that the man was involved in a lot of wickedness prior to that time.</p>
<p>But, I find it more difficult that the children died as well in Jericho, or that the babies outside the ark drowned.  What does it look like to kill every child in Jericho?</p>
<p>Of course, I think any tensions I feel with this biblical truth, or any other, are my problems and not that of truth.  And, I think my problem here is that I think too much in Western individualist terms, whereas the reality is that we are not islands unto ourselves, but are roped to people around us.</p>
<p>Thanks for this series of posts.</p>
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		<title>By: Steve Pressley</title>
		<link>http://thegospelcoalition.org/blogs/trevinwax/2009/05/28/personal-reflections-on-the-canaanite-conquest/#comment-4858</link>
		<dc:creator>Steve Pressley</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 28 May 2009 12:37:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://trevinwax.com/?p=3410#comment-4858</guid>
		<description>Gard&#039;s view of the eventual destruction of earth may disturb the realized eschatology of some, but current events (N. Korea, Iran) lend credence to the plausibility of a traditional reading of 2 Peter 3.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Gard&#8217;s view of the eventual destruction of earth may disturb the realized eschatology of some, but current events (N. Korea, Iran) lend credence to the plausibility of a traditional reading of 2 Peter 3.</p>
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		<title>By: Deek Dubberly</title>
		<link>http://thegospelcoalition.org/blogs/trevinwax/2009/05/28/personal-reflections-on-the-canaanite-conquest/#comment-4860</link>
		<dc:creator>Deek Dubberly</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 28 May 2009 11:17:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://trevinwax.com/?p=3410#comment-4860</guid>
		<description>Really benefited from this series.  Quite thought-provoking, and as I mentioned in a previous comment here on your blog, these are issues that are still very real and sometimes difficult for me.  So thanks for the insight.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Really benefited from this series.  Quite thought-provoking, and as I mentioned in a previous comment here on your blog, these are issues that are still very real and sometimes difficult for me.  So thanks for the insight.</p>
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		<title>By: Rob Davis</title>
		<link>http://thegospelcoalition.org/blogs/trevinwax/2009/05/28/personal-reflections-on-the-canaanite-conquest/#comment-4859</link>
		<dc:creator>Rob Davis</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 28 May 2009 11:10:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://trevinwax.com/?p=3410#comment-4859</guid>
		<description>The most helpful resources I&#039;ve found to help me think through these issues have been from Chris Wright - Old Testament Ethics for the People of God, his commentary on Deuteronomy, and his newest book, The God I Don&#039;t Understand.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The most helpful resources I&#8217;ve found to help me think through these issues have been from Chris Wright &#8211; Old Testament Ethics for the People of God, his commentary on Deuteronomy, and his newest book, The God I Don&#8217;t Understand.</p>
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