Comments on: Turning around the SBC: An Interview with Dr. Danny Akin (2) http://thegospelcoalition.org/blogs/trevinwax/2009/06/09/turning-around-the-sbc-decline-an-interview-with-dr-danny-akin-2/?utm_source=rss&utm_medium=rss&utm_campaign=turning-around-the-sbc-decline-an-interview-with-dr-danny-akin-2 Kingdom People - Living on Earth as Citizens of Heaven Thu, 09 Feb 2012 20:45:00 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.1 By: ann http://thegospelcoalition.org/blogs/trevinwax/2009/06/09/turning-around-the-sbc-decline-an-interview-with-dr-danny-akin-2/#comment-4890 ann Wed, 29 Jul 2009 03:04:03 +0000 http://trevinwax.com/?p=3508#comment-4890 Christ disdains the word fame I am not meaning to cause undo alarm and in no way trying to include you in the place where wrong doers go since you are not meaning to use a wrong word to encourage others to adore GOD yet I am asking you in all earnest to no longer use the word fame in conjunction with the name of the ever present sanctified most HOLY . Christ disdains the word fame I am not meaning to cause undo alarm and in no way trying to include you in the place where wrong doers go since you are not meaning to use a wrong word to encourage others to adore GOD yet I am asking you in all earnest to no longer use the word fame in conjunction with the name of the ever present sanctified most HOLY .

]]> By: Nicolas Krebs http://thegospelcoalition.org/blogs/trevinwax/2009/06/09/turning-around-the-sbc-decline-an-interview-with-dr-danny-akin-2/#comment-4882 Nicolas Krebs Tue, 16 Jun 2009 22:40:16 +0000 http://trevinwax.com/?p=3508#comment-4882 "You may have seen a YouTube video that’s being widely disseminated right now." (Daniel Akin) See a debunk of this faked video (although funny, especially the <a href="http://tinyfrog.files.wordpress.com/2009/05/muslimdemographics4.jpg" rel="nofollow">8.1 children/woman fertility rate of Muslims in France</a>) in Tiny Frog, <a href="http://tinyfrog.wordpress.com/2009/05/03/muslim-demographics/" rel="nofollow">Muslim Demographics</a>, 2009-05-03, Duncan Macleod, <a href="http://www.postkiwi.com/2009/muslim-demographics-on-youtube-abuse-of-statistics/" rel="nofollow">Muslim Demographics on YouTube Abuse of Statistics</a>, 2009-05-11, Steve Letendre, <a href="http://rationalysis.blogspot.com/2009/05/muslim-demographics-debunked.html" rel="nofollow">Muslim Demographics Debunked</a>, 2009-05-26. “You may have seen a YouTube video that’s being widely disseminated right now.” (Daniel Akin)

See a debunk of this faked video (although funny, especially the 8.1 children/woman fertility rate of Muslims in France) in Tiny Frog, Muslim Demographics, 2009-05-03, Duncan Macleod, Muslim Demographics on YouTube Abuse of Statistics, 2009-05-11, Steve Letendre, Muslim Demographics Debunked, 2009-05-26.

]]> By: David Charkowsky http://thegospelcoalition.org/blogs/trevinwax/2009/06/09/turning-around-the-sbc-decline-an-interview-with-dr-danny-akin-2/#comment-4884 David Charkowsky Mon, 15 Jun 2009 16:21:28 +0000 http://trevinwax.com/?p=3508#comment-4884 Joyfully receiving the blessing of children is more than a tool for spreading the Gospel, it *is* the Gospel. In other words, it is one important way in which we live live the Gospel and express it in our actions. By bringing children into the world and educating them, we directly participate in God's divine plan for conversion of the entire world. Neil refers to the 1930 Lambeth Conference, which is where Christianity first relaxed its position against contraception. The favorable position towards contraception is less than 100 years old. The first reason this is sad is because many contraceptives (including "the pill") actually cause early abortions. They are so-called "abortifacients". Before I was Catholic, I never once heard a pastor preach against this thing and the silence is deadly. The second reason this is sad is because the psychology of contraception is inherently anti-Christian. It does not foster charity (love of neighbor) nor does it foster piety (love of God). It fosters only self-centeredness. It seriously darkens and distorts the soul. The third reason why this is sad is because contraception is completely unnecessary. For about $150 you can take a class in NFP (Natural Family Planning) and regulate births without killing your unborn children, without damaging your body with chemicals, and without all the negative psychology of contraception. Joyfully receiving the blessing of children is more than a tool for spreading the Gospel, it *is* the Gospel. In other words, it is one important way in which we live live the Gospel and express it in our actions. By bringing children into the world and educating them, we directly participate in God’s divine plan for conversion of the entire world.

Neil refers to the 1930 Lambeth Conference, which is where Christianity first relaxed its position against contraception. The favorable position towards contraception is less than 100 years old.

The first reason this is sad is because many contraceptives (including “the pill”) actually cause early abortions. They are so-called “abortifacients”. Before I was Catholic, I never once heard a pastor preach against this thing and the silence is deadly.

The second reason this is sad is because the psychology of contraception is inherently anti-Christian. It does not foster charity (love of neighbor) nor does it foster piety (love of God). It fosters only self-centeredness. It seriously darkens and distorts the soul.

The third reason why this is sad is because contraception is completely unnecessary. For about $150 you can take a class in NFP (Natural Family Planning) and regulate births without killing your unborn children, without damaging your body with chemicals, and without all the negative psychology of contraception.

]]> By: Neil http://thegospelcoalition.org/blogs/trevinwax/2009/06/09/turning-around-the-sbc-decline-an-interview-with-dr-danny-akin-2/#comment-4883 Neil Mon, 15 Jun 2009 01:53:13 +0000 http://trevinwax.com/?p=3508#comment-4883 Until the 1920's I think it was, whenever Margret Sanger came on the scene, no Christian church believed birth control was acceptable. The Anglican Church voted to allow birth control and most everyone else fell in line. The Catholic Church and the Orthodox Church continue to teach that birth control of any kind is a sin, because marriage is required to be open to life. It was commanded by God. It's one of the fruits of marriage. Children are a blessing. Marriage provides an opportunity for all married people to participate in creation. It's a blessing. Another aspect that should cause SBC to consider this move to stop using birth control is that the contraception pill has the potential to cause a chemical abortion. If it fails to stop fertilization, it keeps the fertalized egg from implanting, which is the killing of human life. The pill is wrong, because it can cause a chemical abortion. Until the 1920′s I think it was, whenever Margret Sanger came on the scene, no Christian church believed birth control was acceptable. The Anglican Church voted to allow birth control and most everyone else fell in line. The Catholic Church and the Orthodox Church continue to teach that birth control of any kind is a sin, because marriage is required to be open to life. It was commanded by God. It’s one of the fruits of marriage. Children are a blessing. Marriage provides an opportunity for all married people to participate in creation. It’s a blessing.
Another aspect that should cause SBC to consider this move to stop using birth control is that the contraception pill has the potential to cause a chemical abortion. If it fails to stop fertilization, it keeps the fertalized egg from implanting, which is the killing of human life. The pill is wrong, because it can cause a chemical abortion.

]]> By: Trevin Wax http://thegospelcoalition.org/blogs/trevinwax/2009/06/09/turning-around-the-sbc-decline-an-interview-with-dr-danny-akin-2/#comment-4886 Trevin Wax Wed, 10 Jun 2009 03:17:02 +0000 http://trevinwax.com/?p=3508#comment-4886 Todd, I am not sure we are well-equipped in evangelizing young people. Statistics show that we lose a great number of young people from our churches by the time they reach college. Some will never return. Add "declining birth rate" to "inability to retain our own kids" to our apathy in being a witness of the gospel to our world, and we do indeed have a problem. I think Akin is right to say that we need to rethink our view of large families. He is also right though to show that this isn't the solution to the problem. Todd,

I am not sure we are well-equipped in evangelizing young people. Statistics show that we lose a great number of young people from our churches by the time they reach college. Some will never return.

Add “declining birth rate” to “inability to retain our own kids” to our apathy in being a witness of the gospel to our world, and we do indeed have a problem. I think Akin is right to say that we need to rethink our view of large families. He is also right though to show that this isn’t the solution to the problem.

]]> By: Todd http://thegospelcoalition.org/blogs/trevinwax/2009/06/09/turning-around-the-sbc-decline-an-interview-with-dr-danny-akin-2/#comment-4885 Todd Wed, 10 Jun 2009 02:55:43 +0000 http://trevinwax.com/?p=3508#comment-4885 Trevin, We are well equipped when it comes to the evangelization of children and youth; not so much with adults. There may well be declining birth rates. But, we have too often relied on wisdom that says we must help people make decisions before they reach 18 because statistics tell us they will not come to faith later in the same number/percentage. Likely these statistics flowed from structures/systems/methodologies commensurate with VBS, Youth Camps, and other Children's Ministries not a programmatic element of the church before the rise of youth culture in the 1960's. Our dollars and energy tend to be given to these areas because we are pragmatists. So, when we see a decline in the birthrate as even a tangential reason for the decline in baptisms and membership is sound desperate. A more introspective look may reveal we are far too reticent to connect with adults because the dominant view of contextualization turns on the beloved, "be in the world but not of the world" and so we look forward to getting out of the world. Such a longing supersedes the kind of passion Akin sees missing. In other words, we would rather "get out" than do what it takes to "get into." It is missing the "sentness" of the Church into the world as Jesus was sent into the world. Trevin,
We are well equipped when it comes to the evangelization of children and youth; not so much with adults. There may well be declining birth rates. But, we have too often relied on wisdom that says we must help people make decisions before they reach 18 because statistics tell us they will not come to faith later in the same number/percentage. Likely these statistics flowed from structures/systems/methodologies commensurate with VBS, Youth Camps, and other Children’s Ministries not a programmatic element of the church before the rise of youth culture in the 1960′s. Our dollars and energy tend to be given to these areas because we are pragmatists. So, when we see a decline in the birthrate as even a tangential reason for the decline in baptisms and membership is sound desperate. A more introspective look may reveal we are far too reticent to connect with adults because the dominant view of contextualization turns on the beloved, “be in the world but not of the world” and so we look forward to getting out of the world. Such a longing supersedes the kind of passion Akin sees missing. In other words, we would rather “get out” than do what it takes to “get into.” It is missing the “sentness” of the Church into the world as Jesus was sent into the world.

]]> By: Kevin D. Johnson http://thegospelcoalition.org/blogs/trevinwax/2009/06/09/turning-around-the-sbc-decline-an-interview-with-dr-danny-akin-2/#comment-4887 Kevin D. Johnson Tue, 09 Jun 2009 19:20:17 +0000 http://trevinwax.com/?p=3508#comment-4887 While I think the falling birth rate is certainly a contributing factor, the real issue is that the Gospel is simply not preached and lived any more in most Southern Baptist churches except perhaps by a very small minority. For whatever reason, we have taught people that the way to come to Christ is to make a decision and say a short prayer. That is not what it means to become a Christian. As a result, millions have gone in the front door and out the back in just a few short weeks assured that they are saved because they prayed the prayer and really on the fast track to hell because of it (Matthew 23:15). The solution is not to have more children in and of itself. In reality, having more children just means being faithful to God's commandments--be fruitful and multiply. The real situation will be corrected when the Gospel is really proclaimed from the pulpit once again by men who actually OBEY God and demonstrate that in their leadership and fidelity to the Scriptures. Once that is done and people are encouraged not only to embrace Jesus Christ as Savior and Lord with all that they are and then instructed in how to obey--it will merely be a matter of continuing to proclaim the Gospel and obeying the commandments. We show everyday in the SBC that we truly do not love our Lord because we do not preach His Gospel and we do not LIVE it. 'If ye love me, keep my commandments'. That's not happening because not even our leaders are doing that in large part. Yeah. I know some will disagree but the truth hurts and nothing will set us free from the ridiculousness that is SBC church life other than that--the truth, Jesus Christ and His Gospel. While I think the falling birth rate is certainly a contributing factor, the real issue is that the Gospel is simply not preached and lived any more in most Southern Baptist churches except perhaps by a very small minority. For whatever reason, we have taught people that the way to come to Christ is to make a decision and say a short prayer. That is not what it means to become a Christian. As a result, millions have gone in the front door and out the back in just a few short weeks assured that they are saved because they prayed the prayer and really on the fast track to hell because of it (Matthew 23:15).

The solution is not to have more children in and of itself. In reality, having more children just means being faithful to God’s commandments–be fruitful and multiply. The real situation will be corrected when the Gospel is really proclaimed from the pulpit once again by men who actually OBEY God and demonstrate that in their leadership and fidelity to the Scriptures. Once that is done and people are encouraged not only to embrace Jesus Christ as Savior and Lord with all that they are and then instructed in how to obey–it will merely be a matter of continuing to proclaim the Gospel and obeying the commandments.

We show everyday in the SBC that we truly do not love our Lord because we do not preach His Gospel and we do not LIVE it. ‘If ye love me, keep my commandments’. That’s not happening because not even our leaders are doing that in large part. Yeah. I know some will disagree but the truth hurts and nothing will set us free from the ridiculousness that is SBC church life other than that–the truth, Jesus Christ and His Gospel.

]]> By: Trevin Wax http://thegospelcoalition.org/blogs/trevinwax/2009/06/09/turning-around-the-sbc-decline-an-interview-with-dr-danny-akin-2/#comment-4889 Trevin Wax Tue, 09 Jun 2009 12:40:21 +0000 http://trevinwax.com/?p=3508#comment-4889 I don't think anyone is arguing for evangelism merely through breeding. But we need to consider how falling birth rates do affect the future of Christianity in Europe and North America. The rate of 8.1 is from the Muslim Demographics YouTube that Akin was referring to. I don’t think anyone is arguing for evangelism merely through breeding. But we need to consider how falling birth rates do affect the future of Christianity in Europe and North America. The rate of 8.1 is from the Muslim Demographics YouTube that Akin was referring to.

]]> By: Chris E http://thegospelcoalition.org/blogs/trevinwax/2009/06/09/turning-around-the-sbc-decline-an-interview-with-dr-danny-akin-2/#comment-4888 Chris E Tue, 09 Jun 2009 12:34:25 +0000 http://trevinwax.com/?p=3508#comment-4888 There is a certain insularity implied by notion that evangelization is best done via breeding. I'm pretty sure "Among Muslims, the rate is 8.1 to 1." is a typo. There is a certain insularity implied by notion that evangelization is best done via breeding.

I’m pretty sure “Among Muslims, the rate is 8.1 to 1.” is a typo.

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