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	<title>Comments on: Roe v. Wade at 37</title>
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	<description>Kingdom People - Living on Earth as Citizens of Heaven</description>
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		<title>By: Eric Gregory</title>
		<link>http://thegospelcoalition.org/blogs/trevinwax/2010/01/18/roe-v-wade-at-37/#comment-5883</link>
		<dc:creator>Eric Gregory</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 30 Jan 2010 14:09:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://trevinwax.com/?p=5050#comment-5883</guid>
		<description>Neal, I think that might be a horrendous over-reading of Luke 17 since the only thing that&#039;s clear from that chapter (regarding eschatology) is that Jesus, after his suffering and death, will be &quot;like lightning among the clouds&quot; and that there is a warning/encouragement is to not look after oneself (e.g. Lot&#039;s wife), but to lose it in service of the Kingdom (e.g. for others; &quot;the least of these&quot;).

I find it rather appalling that you might be looking forward to the destruction of homosexuals. That kind of &quot;future-hoping&quot; (focused more on a poorly-evidenced &quot;rapture&quot; and less on the merging of heaven and earth and the renewal of life everlasting (in the eschatological sense) is heinously unchristian and thoroughly selfish. Who would Jesus hate?

And we MUST repeal &quot;Don&#039;t Ask, Don&#039;t Tell&quot; for as much as you don&#039;t like it, the fact remains that hundreds of thousands of those who identify as homosexuals (even if they are not sexually active) would willingly serve this country in the military. Their sexual orientation is a completely illegitimate discriminator, just as it is for any other government service position. Denying them the ability to self-identify by threatening them with expulsion is not only unconstitutional, but unchristian. For the record, I am not in favor of the ordination of partnered homosexuals (as any sexual activity outside of marriage, as defined by the Church, is fornication), but fully support civil partnerships being recognized by the state. It is of no business of the government what adult men and women do in their bedrooms (unless it involves children or violence).

If &quot;Don&#039;t Ask, Don&#039;t Tell&quot; needs to remain (for whatever illogical and immoral reasons), it needs to be for heterosexuals and homosexuals alike. That way we wouldn&#039;t have any issue at all - sexuality is not allowed to be discussed. That might take care of the pornography, rape and misogyny problems that are more rampant in the military than any homosexual activity.

I wonder if a more productive discussion about the military concerns Christian participation in combat positions; finding justification for killing after the cross and resurrection is quite difficult to do.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Neal, I think that might be a horrendous over-reading of Luke 17 since the only thing that&#8217;s clear from that chapter (regarding eschatology) is that Jesus, after his suffering and death, will be &#8220;like lightning among the clouds&#8221; and that there is a warning/encouragement is to not look after oneself (e.g. Lot&#8217;s wife), but to lose it in service of the Kingdom (e.g. for others; &#8220;the least of these&#8221;).</p>
<p>I find it rather appalling that you might be looking forward to the destruction of homosexuals. That kind of &#8220;future-hoping&#8221; (focused more on a poorly-evidenced &#8220;rapture&#8221; and less on the merging of heaven and earth and the renewal of life everlasting (in the eschatological sense) is heinously unchristian and thoroughly selfish. Who would Jesus hate?</p>
<p>And we MUST repeal &#8220;Don&#8217;t Ask, Don&#8217;t Tell&#8221; for as much as you don&#8217;t like it, the fact remains that hundreds of thousands of those who identify as homosexuals (even if they are not sexually active) would willingly serve this country in the military. Their sexual orientation is a completely illegitimate discriminator, just as it is for any other government service position. Denying them the ability to self-identify by threatening them with expulsion is not only unconstitutional, but unchristian. For the record, I am not in favor of the ordination of partnered homosexuals (as any sexual activity outside of marriage, as defined by the Church, is fornication), but fully support civil partnerships being recognized by the state. It is of no business of the government what adult men and women do in their bedrooms (unless it involves children or violence).</p>
<p>If &#8220;Don&#8217;t Ask, Don&#8217;t Tell&#8221; needs to remain (for whatever illogical and immoral reasons), it needs to be for heterosexuals and homosexuals alike. That way we wouldn&#8217;t have any issue at all &#8211; sexuality is not allowed to be discussed. That might take care of the pornography, rape and misogyny problems that are more rampant in the military than any homosexual activity.</p>
<p>I wonder if a more productive discussion about the military concerns Christian participation in combat positions; finding justification for killing after the cross and resurrection is quite difficult to do.</p>
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		<title>By: Neal</title>
		<link>http://thegospelcoalition.org/blogs/trevinwax/2010/01/18/roe-v-wade-at-37/#comment-5882</link>
		<dc:creator>Neal</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 30 Jan 2010 06:17:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://trevinwax.com/?p=5050#comment-5882</guid>
		<description>Obama&#039;s desire to repeal &quot;Don&#039;t ask, don&#039;t tell&quot; can actually help to fulfill the &quot;days of Lot&quot; (Luke 17, cf. Gen. 19), the fulfillment of which will hurry up the return of the Heavenly Commander-in-Chief who will make all things straight (pun intended)! Interesting Google articles include &quot;Obama Supports Public Depravity,&quot; &quot;Obama Avoids Bible Verses,&quot; &quot;Separation of Raunch and State&quot; and &quot;David Letterman&#039;s Hate Etc.&quot; - required reading for the &quot;Obama 101&quot; course.
     PS - You&#039;re invited to use these new pro-life slogans: &quot;Unborn babies should have the right to keep and bear arms - and legs and ears and eyes etc.!&quot; and &quot;Unborn babies should have the same right to be born alive that abortionists had!&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Obama&#8217;s desire to repeal &#8220;Don&#8217;t ask, don&#8217;t tell&#8221; can actually help to fulfill the &#8220;days of Lot&#8221; (Luke 17, cf. Gen. 19), the fulfillment of which will hurry up the return of the Heavenly Commander-in-Chief who will make all things straight (pun intended)! Interesting Google articles include &#8220;Obama Supports Public Depravity,&#8221; &#8220;Obama Avoids Bible Verses,&#8221; &#8220;Separation of Raunch and State&#8221; and &#8220;David Letterman&#8217;s Hate Etc.&#8221; &#8211; required reading for the &#8220;Obama 101&#8243; course.<br />
     PS &#8211; You&#8217;re invited to use these new pro-life slogans: &#8220;Unborn babies should have the right to keep and bear arms &#8211; and legs and ears and eyes etc.!&#8221; and &#8220;Unborn babies should have the same right to be born alive that abortionists had!&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: Duane Doughty</title>
		<link>http://thegospelcoalition.org/blogs/trevinwax/2010/01/18/roe-v-wade-at-37/#comment-5881</link>
		<dc:creator>Duane Doughty</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 19 Jan 2010 14:22:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://trevinwax.com/?p=5050#comment-5881</guid>
		<description>Excellent post Trevin. I love how you outline what being pro-life looks like in action, in the real world.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Excellent post Trevin. I love how you outline what being pro-life looks like in action, in the real world.</p>
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		<title>By: Jason Finley</title>
		<link>http://thegospelcoalition.org/blogs/trevinwax/2010/01/18/roe-v-wade-at-37/#comment-5880</link>
		<dc:creator>Jason Finley</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 19 Jan 2010 02:51:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://trevinwax.com/?p=5050#comment-5880</guid>
		<description>Don&#039;t forget pro-creation.  Get it? Sad I know...but besides being fruitful and multiplying, pro-life/anti-death also includes protecting life in the rest of creation!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Don&#8217;t forget pro-creation.  Get it? Sad I know&#8230;but besides being fruitful and multiplying, pro-life/anti-death also includes protecting life in the rest of creation!</p>
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		<title>By: karl</title>
		<link>http://thegospelcoalition.org/blogs/trevinwax/2010/01/18/roe-v-wade-at-37/#comment-5879</link>
		<dc:creator>karl</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 18 Jan 2010 20:01:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://trevinwax.com/?p=5050#comment-5879</guid>
		<description>Eric, thank you for your comment. Your appeal creates fertile ground for both sides of the abortion issue to meet, because I also believe (to use the words of the author above) &quot;a truly pro-life, pro-family church&quot; could not condemn abortion and yet condone the taking of life for political or sociological reasons. To truly be pro-life, you must simultaneously be anti-abortion, anti-deathpenalty, anti-war, and anti-euthanasia.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Eric, thank you for your comment. Your appeal creates fertile ground for both sides of the abortion issue to meet, because I also believe (to use the words of the author above) &#8220;a truly pro-life, pro-family church&#8221; could not condemn abortion and yet condone the taking of life for political or sociological reasons. To truly be pro-life, you must simultaneously be anti-abortion, anti-deathpenalty, anti-war, and anti-euthanasia.</p>
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		<title>By: Eric Gregory</title>
		<link>http://thegospelcoalition.org/blogs/trevinwax/2010/01/18/roe-v-wade-at-37/#comment-5878</link>
		<dc:creator>Eric Gregory</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 18 Jan 2010 14:56:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://trevinwax.com/?p=5050#comment-5878</guid>
		<description>Perhaps we can get away from the terrible moniker of &quot;pro-life&quot; with all of its connotations of clinic bombings and the &quot;moral majority&quot;. These terms do nothing to help (especially amongst teens and 20-somethings), and do everything to harm a just cause. However, fighting against Roe v. Wade isn&#039;t going to get us anywhere anytime soon - three things that will never change about our nation now: death, taxes, and abortion.

Abortion, as it should be understood (medical necessity), is not wrong or bad - thinking that it&#039;s somehow okay to risk the life of both mother and child because terminating ANY pregnancy is &quot;morally wrong&quot; needs to go out the window. Medical procedures exist for a reason. Telling a near-death mother that she&#039;s not allowed to terminate her pregnancy and save her life, but must almost certainly lose her own life and the life of her unborn child is a tragic side-effect of the current right-wing push to end all abortion. That would be akin to telling someone with cancer that they shouldn&#039;t receive treatment because God gave them the gift of their hair and it&#039;s illegal to lose their hair. It&#039;s a much different situation, to be sure, but let&#039;s not toss a medical necessity out in order to stave off the murdering of innocents (which elective abortion certainly is).

Why not reclassify ourselves, as Christians, as &quot;choose life&quot;. We acknowledge that there is a choice to be made for those who find themselves with unplanned pregnancies, but, in EVERY case (death penalty, abortion, war, etc.) we should be advocating for LIFE instead of death. We somehow find it acceptable to recognize war as a necessity (which it&#039;s not), or the death penalty as just (which it most CERTAINLY is not), yet are stuck on the abortion issue (and rightly so). Let&#039;s advocate for an end to war, an end to elective abortion, and an end to the death penalty.

Let&#039;s cast off the chains of partisan phrases like &quot;pro-life&quot; and recommit ourselves to calling out the injustices around us that lead to death, urging everyone to choose life. For the unborn and for the terrorist.

Ours is a radical love.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Perhaps we can get away from the terrible moniker of &#8220;pro-life&#8221; with all of its connotations of clinic bombings and the &#8220;moral majority&#8221;. These terms do nothing to help (especially amongst teens and 20-somethings), and do everything to harm a just cause. However, fighting against Roe v. Wade isn&#8217;t going to get us anywhere anytime soon &#8211; three things that will never change about our nation now: death, taxes, and abortion.</p>
<p>Abortion, as it should be understood (medical necessity), is not wrong or bad &#8211; thinking that it&#8217;s somehow okay to risk the life of both mother and child because terminating ANY pregnancy is &#8220;morally wrong&#8221; needs to go out the window. Medical procedures exist for a reason. Telling a near-death mother that she&#8217;s not allowed to terminate her pregnancy and save her life, but must almost certainly lose her own life and the life of her unborn child is a tragic side-effect of the current right-wing push to end all abortion. That would be akin to telling someone with cancer that they shouldn&#8217;t receive treatment because God gave them the gift of their hair and it&#8217;s illegal to lose their hair. It&#8217;s a much different situation, to be sure, but let&#8217;s not toss a medical necessity out in order to stave off the murdering of innocents (which elective abortion certainly is).</p>
<p>Why not reclassify ourselves, as Christians, as &#8220;choose life&#8221;. We acknowledge that there is a choice to be made for those who find themselves with unplanned pregnancies, but, in EVERY case (death penalty, abortion, war, etc.) we should be advocating for LIFE instead of death. We somehow find it acceptable to recognize war as a necessity (which it&#8217;s not), or the death penalty as just (which it most CERTAINLY is not), yet are stuck on the abortion issue (and rightly so). Let&#8217;s advocate for an end to war, an end to elective abortion, and an end to the death penalty.</p>
<p>Let&#8217;s cast off the chains of partisan phrases like &#8220;pro-life&#8221; and recommit ourselves to calling out the injustices around us that lead to death, urging everyone to choose life. For the unborn and for the terrorist.</p>
<p>Ours is a radical love.</p>
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		<title>By: Trevin Wax</title>
		<link>http://thegospelcoalition.org/blogs/trevinwax/2010/01/18/roe-v-wade-at-37/#comment-5877</link>
		<dc:creator>Trevin Wax</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 18 Jan 2010 13:20:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://trevinwax.com/?p=5050#comment-5877</guid>
		<description>RJ,

I agree that we can do better. I tried to make that point with regard to our churches&#039; view of children as well. We might not be as pro-life as we think we are, at times.

Good word!

Trevin</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>RJ,</p>
<p>I agree that we can do better. I tried to make that point with regard to our churches&#8217; view of children as well. We might not be as pro-life as we think we are, at times.</p>
<p>Good word!</p>
<p>Trevin</p>
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		<title>By: RJ</title>
		<link>http://thegospelcoalition.org/blogs/trevinwax/2010/01/18/roe-v-wade-at-37/#comment-5876</link>
		<dc:creator>RJ</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 18 Jan 2010 12:42:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://trevinwax.com/?p=5050#comment-5876</guid>
		<description>Trevin, thanks for these thoughtful and impassioned words about the sanctity of life. I agree with everything you said. But, we Christians should not think that we get an A+ in this area.  As you rightly say Christians in England opposed slavery but many did not and the majority in the U.S. were not in this fold. While Martin Luther King was marching  many, and maybe even most, Christians were again on the other side of the fence.
There are some who say we only have a &quot;selective&quot; sanctity of life. Many of us continue to promote the death penalty for vengence&#039;s sake even though we know is kills innocent people. Where is forgiveness of sins even for those who may have actually committed an atrocity?  And then with the exceptions of maybe the Mennonites and the Quakers we Christians are often the first to rush to war and send our young men and women off to certain death.
So, again let&#039;s not give ourselves an A+. We, like the people we critize, who promote abortion, have a lot to learn about the sanctity of life.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Trevin, thanks for these thoughtful and impassioned words about the sanctity of life. I agree with everything you said. But, we Christians should not think that we get an A+ in this area.  As you rightly say Christians in England opposed slavery but many did not and the majority in the U.S. were not in this fold. While Martin Luther King was marching  many, and maybe even most, Christians were again on the other side of the fence.<br />
There are some who say we only have a &#8220;selective&#8221; sanctity of life. Many of us continue to promote the death penalty for vengence&#8217;s sake even though we know is kills innocent people. Where is forgiveness of sins even for those who may have actually committed an atrocity?  And then with the exceptions of maybe the Mennonites and the Quakers we Christians are often the first to rush to war and send our young men and women off to certain death.<br />
So, again let&#8217;s not give ourselves an A+. We, like the people we critize, who promote abortion, have a lot to learn about the sanctity of life.</p>
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