Comments on: Calvinism Comeback http://thegospelcoalition.org/blogs/tullian/2009/07/24/calvinism-comeback/ Sat, 11 Feb 2012 00:41:18 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.1 By: Matt http://thegospelcoalition.org/blogs/tullian/2009/07/24/calvinism-comeback/comment-page-1/#comment-2734 Matt Sat, 25 Jul 2009 04:11:08 +0000 http://www.crpc.org/blog/?p=711#comment-2734 Gentlemen, indeed we are all sinful in our nature. There but for the grace of Christ go we all. I think we are very much agreed. Matthew, I think we would do good to announce that Calvin was a sinner, indeed. We must fight the quiet tendency to not put him (or anyone) on a pedestal in any way. Announcing him as a fallen man that needed God's grace and participated in the work of the Lord in mighty ways would certainly be healthy. Gentlemen, indeed we are all sinful in our nature. There but for the grace of Christ go we all. I think we are very much agreed. Matthew, I think we would do good to announce that Calvin was a sinner, indeed. We must fight the quiet tendency to not put him (or anyone) on a pedestal in any way. Announcing him as a fallen man that needed God’s grace and participated in the work of the Lord in mighty ways would certainly be healthy.

]]> By: David Schwartz http://thegospelcoalition.org/blogs/tullian/2009/07/24/calvinism-comeback/comment-page-1/#comment-2733 David Schwartz Sat, 25 Jul 2009 03:00:11 +0000 http://www.crpc.org/blog/?p=711#comment-2733 Matt, I enjoyed what you said about admission of wrong doing. We all need to be aware of our own sin and the sin of others, and extend grace to our brethren and the lost. Of course, as Matthew said, one of Calvin's chief points, articulated at the Synod of Dort in 1618/19, is the Total Depravity of man. Nonetheless, we tend to overlook the shortcomings of our forefathers in the faith. I, for one, have heard many wonderful sermons referring to Luther's life, and yet I have never heard anyone discuss his assessment of the Jews (both in terms of his hope for them initially, and his condemnation of them at life's end). We cannot hide past failures. We must be honest and admit wrongdoing. As a believing Jew, I remember visiting a Jewish community center where quotes of Luther and Chrysostom were clearly displayed as evidences of anti-semitism in the church. This made me very uncomfortable and yet I could not deny their reality. Let's be honest. We're all totally depraved, and desperately in need of the Savior. Let us cling to Him, who endured the cross and the wrath of His Father, for us. What terror He endured! What beauty He displayed! O, Praise Him!! Matt,
I enjoyed what you said about admission of wrong doing. We all need to be aware of our own sin and the sin of others, and extend grace to our brethren and the lost. Of course, as Matthew said, one of Calvin’s chief points, articulated at the Synod of Dort in 1618/19, is the Total Depravity of man. Nonetheless, we tend to overlook the shortcomings of our forefathers in the faith. I, for one, have heard many wonderful sermons referring to Luther’s life, and yet I have never heard anyone discuss his assessment of the Jews (both in terms of his hope for them initially, and his condemnation of them at life’s end). We cannot hide past failures. We must be honest and admit wrongdoing. As a believing Jew, I remember visiting a Jewish community center where quotes of Luther and Chrysostom were clearly displayed as evidences of anti-semitism in the church. This made me very uncomfortable and yet I could not deny their reality.
Let’s be honest. We’re all totally depraved, and desperately in need of the Savior. Let us cling to Him, who endured the cross and the wrath of His Father, for us. What terror He endured! What beauty He displayed!
O, Praise Him!!

]]> By: Matthew Cochrane http://thegospelcoalition.org/blogs/tullian/2009/07/24/calvinism-comeback/comment-page-1/#comment-2732 Matthew Cochrane Sat, 25 Jul 2009 02:21:24 +0000 http://www.crpc.org/blog/?p=711#comment-2732 Matt, I don't know of any Calvinist who thinks or states that Calvin lived a perfect life. Indeed, the very concept goes against one fo the fundamental tenets of Calvinism (total depravity). Rather, we celebrate his theology because it is rooted in Scripture and helps explain some of the central points of the gospel. Tha tis why we rejoice that Calvinism is still going strong after 500 years. Matt, I don’t know of any Calvinist who thinks or states that Calvin lived a perfect life. Indeed, the very concept goes against one fo the fundamental tenets of Calvinism (total depravity). Rather, we celebrate his theology because it is rooted in Scripture and helps explain some of the central points of the gospel. Tha tis why we rejoice that Calvinism is still going strong after 500 years.

]]> By: Matt http://thegospelcoalition.org/blogs/tullian/2009/07/24/calvinism-comeback/comment-page-1/#comment-2731 Matt Fri, 24 Jul 2009 17:22:16 +0000 http://www.crpc.org/blog/?p=711#comment-2731 More relevant to the blog entry - Calvinism Comeback. We should always be glad and thankful when the winds of the Spirit blow away dross and bring truth to the fore. I hope the grace of God and the sovereignty of God over all makes a comeback like never before. God is good. With that said, Calvinism. Now, please know that I write this as someone who reads Calvin and benefits greatly. I also enjoy reading Augustine and Luther, J.I. Packer and I greatly enjoy listening to Mark Driscoll. In short, I am Christian first, evangelical second, and reformed third. I go to a non-denomination church, but was married in and attended an OPC church for almost three years. Tullian, this is related to the "truth" chapter you write in Unfashionable. Maybe we need to be unfashionably honest about the failures of Calvinism and the problems with it, in order to rightly discuss the blessings that come from a practice and doctrine. For instance, maybe it is time to say "Yeah, that Servetus thing Calvin did was wrong and sinful. Calvin was human - like King David and Solomon - whom God also used mightily and even permitted to teach Scripture. But Calvin too was a great sinner." Maybe we need to discuss the foils of Luther (his railing against the Jews just before he died, etc.). Maybe we need to buck up and say "Yes, sometimes on the reformed side we have overemphasized sin, downplayed the renewal and washings of the Holy Spirit, and have not always stressed that 'the goal of our instruction is love from a pure heart, and good conscience and a sincere faith' (1 Timothy 1:5), indeed the most excellent way. At times a dour spirit has prevailed in our midst." I say these things as a fellow sinner. One whom daily needs God's grace, truth and Holy Spirit. Please know that. But imagine the impact that would come about if we were not so defensive of our theological practice, but actually honest about it - warts and all. Even honest about our 'hero's' of the faith, and how they were broken men as well. Truth sales itself. Truth is not afraid of admission of wrong and shortcomings. Truth is not for the faint of heart. Truth does not fear "truth", light nor examination. Truth is always unfashionable. I stress I am growing in truth and have a ways to go. But wouldn't it be refreshing if we became truthful about our own traditions and teachings, and the history thereof? Wouldn't this highlight the fact that only God is holy and good and righteous? Hope this is encouraging in the good fight. May God's truth prevail. Peace, Matt More relevant to the blog entry – Calvinism Comeback.

We should always be glad and thankful when the winds of the Spirit blow away dross and bring truth to the fore. I hope the grace of God and the sovereignty of God over all makes a comeback like never before. God is good.

With that said, Calvinism. Now, please know that I write this as someone who reads Calvin and benefits greatly. I also enjoy reading Augustine and Luther, J.I. Packer and I greatly enjoy listening to Mark Driscoll. In short, I am Christian first, evangelical second, and reformed third. I go to a non-denomination church, but was married in and attended an OPC church for almost three years.

Tullian, this is related to the “truth” chapter you write in Unfashionable. Maybe we need to be unfashionably honest about the failures of Calvinism and the problems with it, in order to rightly discuss the blessings that come from a practice and doctrine. For instance, maybe it is time to say “Yeah, that Servetus thing Calvin did was wrong and sinful. Calvin was human – like King David and Solomon – whom God also used mightily and even permitted to teach Scripture. But Calvin too was a great sinner.” Maybe we need to discuss the foils of Luther (his railing against the Jews just before he died, etc.). Maybe we need to buck up and say “Yes, sometimes on the reformed side we have overemphasized sin, downplayed the renewal and washings of the Holy Spirit, and have not always stressed that ‘the goal of our instruction is love from a pure heart, and good conscience and a sincere faith’ (1 Timothy 1:5), indeed the most excellent way. At times a dour spirit has prevailed in our midst.”

I say these things as a fellow sinner. One whom daily needs God’s grace, truth and Holy Spirit. Please know that.

But imagine the impact that would come about if we were not so defensive of our theological practice, but actually honest about it – warts and all. Even honest about our ‘hero’s’ of the faith, and how they were broken men as well.

Truth sales itself. Truth is not afraid of admission of wrong and shortcomings. Truth is not for the faint of heart. Truth does not fear “truth”, light nor examination. Truth is always unfashionable.

I stress I am growing in truth and have a ways to go. But wouldn’t it be refreshing if we became truthful about our own traditions and teachings, and the history thereof? Wouldn’t this highlight the fact that only God is holy and good and righteous?

Hope this is encouraging in the good fight. May God’s truth prevail.

Peace,
Matt

]]> By: Matt http://thegospelcoalition.org/blogs/tullian/2009/07/24/calvinism-comeback/comment-page-1/#comment-2730 Matt Fri, 24 Jul 2009 17:04:18 +0000 http://www.crpc.org/blog/?p=711#comment-2730 Tullian, I just finished reading Unfashionable. Excellent work! Well done. Full of a good spirit and substance. Hope the book gets good mileage and more (just read the chapter on encouragement :-D But seriously, it is all true. I am happy to know that I have another good book to recommend to folks (I plan to send my copy to my cousin in Chicago), and another book that is worth re-reading after a period of time. Matt Tullian, I just finished reading Unfashionable. Excellent work! Well done. Full of a good spirit and substance. Hope the book gets good mileage and more (just read the chapter on encouragement :-D But seriously, it is all true. I am happy to know that I have another good book to recommend to folks (I plan to send my copy to my cousin in Chicago), and another book that is worth re-reading after a period of time.

Matt

]]> By: Jeremy Larson http://thegospelcoalition.org/blogs/tullian/2009/07/24/calvinism-comeback/comment-page-1/#comment-2729 Jeremy Larson Fri, 24 Jul 2009 14:21:17 +0000 http://www.crpc.org/blog/?p=711#comment-2729 Thank you for posting this! Thank you for posting this!

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