Steve,

What do you make of 1 Corinthians 9:24-27 and other passages like it?

"Do you not know that in a race all the runners run, but only one receives the prize? So run that you may obtain it. Every athlete exercises self-control in all things. They do it to receive a perishable wreath, but we an imperishable. So I do not run aimlessly; I do not box as one beating the air. But I discipline my body and keep it under control, lest after preaching to others I myself should be disqualified."

Hi Mitchell,
What you’re describing is part of my experience as well and I get where you’re coming from.

The reason why I stress the matter of seeing Christian living and growth in terms of Christ living in us (rather than merely the distinction between law and justification) is not is because I think am I doing a “good job” but because I believe it is part of the biblical revelation. Moreover, I’ve been blessed to meet many people whom I believe are more spiritually mature in Christ than I am and who had a kind of genuine knowledge and experience of Christ in their daily living that I did not. It didn’t cause me to feel condemned or less-than (as if the Christian life were some sort of rivalry or competition) but it did put a spiritual hunger in me. It helped me see that there was much more than I thought to the Christian life or to knowing Christ than receiving a ticket to heaven, and it gave meaning to the apostle Paul’s word in Philippians 3 concerning pursuing and gaining Christ.

@Paul St.
Amen brother. I believe the reason why Steve M. tries to make it seem that things like “the practice of godliness” are a waste of time is because he tends to see everything in terms of law and justification by grace. In his view, If it’s not justification by grace and it asks us to “do something,” then it must be law that waters down grace. But I would suggest that this is simply not the case because grace is simply the enjoyment of Christ and He is not only our redeemer outside of us but He lives inside of us. Hence, to enjoy the grace of Christ is not only enjoy to fact of our justification but also to enjoy Jesus who lives in us. Based on the fact that Jesus lives in us and has given to us His Spirit, He and the apostles did in fact direct many imperatives to the believers. These imperatives remind us to enjoy the grace of Christ, to turn our being to Him, to pursue Him day by day (not only in church meetings on Sundays). As we enjoy Him in such a way, we grow and the Body of Christ is built up.

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Brandon E
I appreciate your comments very much. And I like what Mitchel said about "ever increasing faith." We do tend to measure our growth in the Christian walk, I do, but you make a good point that we need to pursue. I was reading Bridges "the Practice of Godliness" until Steve Martin made it seem a waste of time.
What I think it comes down to is the Whole counsel of God. As Paul spoke of to the Ephesian elders. Acts 20:13-36 KJV especially Acts 20:27 We need to be careful not to pull any text out of context because then it is no longer a precept.

Brandon,
The whole idea of "progress" insinuates a measurable quantity. That we can somehow plot our upward growth on a chart like one would do lifting weights; "I'm getting stronger and stronger." As I said before faith is trust and it isn't doled out with more effort. If progress is as many think then I would say the greatest measurable stats one can muster is to do exactly what Christ commanded... give away everything and give to the poor as He did by taking on human form, not using His divine attributes. Spend your time taking care of the down trodden of our existence... but the fact is we don't do these things. We would rather spend our time arguing the points on a blog or getting our golf handicap down another notch. This is why I believe many in the reformed camp have a terrible view of what God actually demands of us. Push it to the extreme and I think you start to quiver in your shorts a bit. Most of what I read at TGC is the notion that they're actually doing what God wants to the degree He asks of us. And I would echo that sentiment for the American brand of evangelicalism. It drove me out of it.

Brandon,
Off the cuff I wouldn't disagree with you. But my experience is Christ-likeness in one situation and fleshly in another. One day I can have patience with those who "drive me up a wall' but there's no guarantee that I will maintain that quality from day to day. The same can be said for many of the other commandments and "New Covenant Imperatives." I've stated before I don't struggle with the same issues I did as a "teenager" but I do have just as many struggles with other issues. But I do get the gist of what you are saying. And yes the Apostles use the language of "ever increasing" and so forth. It may be easier to pick up on progress coming out of a culture where they practiced temple prostitution and sacrifices to Zeus or Apollo. But having grown up in a Christian home I can honestly say my life isn't dramatically different... apart from belief and trusting. It seems this is the silliness of Christianity that unbelievers have problems with - we have many of the same issues as they do - they see nothing wrong with it but I do. I try to change but my experience tells me I have to be forgiven - I'm not "fixed." A new creation? Absolutely - but my consolation is that I have an advocate with the Father - not my measly progress.
I hope my points come across.

Hi Mitchell,
The whole idea of “progress” insinuates a measurable quantity.

Yes, it seems so. But we don’t need to be able to perfectly chart or measure our growth in order to grow to take care of the matter of growth. Only God perfectly knows “how much” and in the ways we might grow in Christ (Eph. 4:15, 3:17). That we perceive that we are staying the same or getting worse in some areas does not mean that we aren’t actually growing in other areas of which we are presently unaware. And any growth we might have is not a cause for pride, for Christian growth is not a matter of becoming stronger or better in ourselves (implying that the “better” we become the less we need Christ) but a matter of Christ increasing is us and saturating or filling our being so that we live not by our own life but by His life.

So regardless of how well we can or cannot measure growth, I am simply observing the fact the Bible speaks about growth, progress, pursuing Christ, etc. It also says that His commandments (believing in His Son, loving God, loving the brothers, practicing righteousness, not loving the world, etc.) are not burdensome (1 John 5:3). And it speaks of Christ being not only our redeemer outside of us (and hence that we can live in the realization of that redemption) but of Him being our life and living in us (and hence that we can live by His life).

Yes, we are all sinners who apart from Christ deserve wrath and condemnation for our sins. But if the Bible does not present all commandments as the killing, condemning law, or else irrelevant to life in Christ, and in fact many are presented as vital means of our ongoing knowledge and experience of Christ, then what good is it to always insist otherwise? Doesn’t it create unnecessary confusion?

Brandon you're correct a lot of red herrings are used to deny what is biblically clear.

Finally, then, brothers, we ask and urge you in the Lord Jesus, that as you received from us how you ought to walk and to please God, just as you are doing, that you do so more and more. For you know what instructions we gave you through the Lord Jesus. For this is the will of God, your sanctification: that you abstain from sexual immorality; that each one of you know how to control his own body in holiness and honor, not in the passion of lust like the Gentiles who do not know God; that no one transgress and wrong his brother in this matter, because the Lord is an avenger in all these things, as we told you beforehand and solemnly warned you. For God has not called us for impurity, but in holiness. Therefore whoever disregards this, disregards not man but God, who gives his Holy Spirit to you. 1 Thessalonians 4:1-8

Amen, Mike and Mitchell. Both passages are true. There the apostles wrote that we would not sin and to ask and urge us concerning “how you ought to walk and to please God, just as you are doing, that you do so more and more.” Yet if we sin we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the Righteous, whose precious blood cleanses us from every sin.

1 John is a very good epistle for showing that not all imperatives are the unfulfillable, condemning law that detract from grace. The apostle John describes God’s commandments as believing in God’s Son, loving God, loving the brothers, practicing righteousness, not loving the world or the things in the world, etc. and says that His commandments are not burdensome (1 John 2:3-11, 15-17; 3:1-24; 4:7-21; 5:1-3). He states that those who do not keep His commandments do not know God, are not of God, and are not His children, but that the believers do in fact in fact know God, are of God, and are His children, necessarily implying that they do keep His commandments (even if they of course do not do so perfectly). This is possible because the very God who is love has been imparted into our being through regeneration.

Everyone who believes that Jesus is the Christ has been begotten of God, and everyone who loves Him who has begotten loves him also who has been begotten of Him.

In this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God and do His commandments.

For this is the love of God, that we keep His commandments; and His commandments are not burdensome.
-1 John 5:1-3

I am writing these things to you so that you may not sin. But if anyone does sin, ?we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous. 2He is the propitiation for our sins, and not for ours only but ?also for the sins of the whole world. And by this we know that we have come to know him, if we ?keep his commandments.

Now. Live...

I am writing these things to you so that you may not sin. But if anyone does sin, ?we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous. 2He is the propitiation for our sins, and not for ours only but a?also for the sins of the whole world. And by this we know that we have come to know him, if we ?keep his commandments.

Now. Live...

Steve,

So what do you make of passages like Phil. 3:7-16; 2 Pet. 1:3-11; Eph. 4:15; Gal. 5:16;26; Col. 1:24-29; 1 Tim. 6:11; 4:5; 2 Tim. 2:22; Heb. 12:14? Are they preaching bad religion, simply because they speak of growth, progress, of more to the Christian life than only failing and being forgiven?

I think that your last comment paints a false dichotomy between your position and a self-righteous religious pursuit of "progress." I would suggest that in actuality there is a Christ-centered, Christ-relying pursuit of Christ resulting in growth and fruitfulness, and Christ and the apostles told us about it.

That you say "I don’t care what the Bible says about it" is telling. Are you and your favorite Christian teachers the pope, alone qualified to interpret the Bible? Is nothing others say valid, even if they are earnestly pointing out matters in the New Testament, such as how not all imperatives are law but are based upon and lead to grace? That people can turn "that book" into whatever they want doesn't show that I or others have done so and that you alone above Scripture and fit to interpret Scripture, or ignore it. I can just as easily say that you use the Scriptures against Christ by presuming to fit all of Christ, the Scriptures and the Christian life into the dichotomy of law and justification, or of sin and forgiveness, when in actuality the Bible further speaks of Christ being our life in the Spirit and of our growing in His life unto maturity that His Body may express Him on the earth. Towards this end we are told to "pursue" and to apply "diligence," but this you smear, condemn and disparage as nothing more than a religious game.

Brother, to me your stance is coming across as "You're wrong, but I can't show why you're wrong. I can't be bothered with this reasoning from Scripture stuff. All I need to know is that my theology is right and if you don't agree you're a religious Pharisee trying to climb a religious ladder." But I'm saying that the apostle Paul's realization that he has not already obtained or is already perfected caused him not only to rest in justification but to pursue what there is to gain of Christ for which God called us upward. It's not like we have to choose between one or the other.

"Not that I have already obtained or am already perfected, but I pursue, if even I may lay hold of that for which I also have been laid hold of by Christ Jesus" (Phil. 3:12)

"I pursue toward the goal for the prize to which God in Christ Jesus has called me upward" (v. 14).

I really hate religion. By "religion" I mean that which 'we do' to try and ascend to, or access Christ. Or that which promises Christian progression. There is no progress in the life of the Christian. Only death and resurrection. Only repentance and forgiveness.

To rely on Him...period...is not being religious. To ascend some sort of spiritual ladder and 'gain in holiness' by things that we do...is religion. Bad religion. I don't care what the Bible says about it. People can turn that book into anything they want. "When people use the Bible against Christ, we will use Christ against the Bible" (Martin Luther).

Jesus worked the margins. He looked for those who were despairing of their own ability in the holiness game. That's who we look for also. Many don't like it. Many love the religion game. Many think they are doing a pretty fair job of it and they're eager to tell you how to do it, as well. Nope. Not for me. I gave up on being able to do, say, offer anything at all. I'm trusting totally in Him. It is relaxing. It is restful. The external Word and sacraments are very liberating and assuring to those who are on the margins. Those who have tried and realize that they have zero, nada, zilch to offer are now free. They are declared totally righteous, and holy. They will never be a better Christian than the moment they were baptized.

That is actually good news! (unless you love the religion game)

Hi Mitchell,
Brother, I agree with most of what you are saying, especially concerning faith, belief, and trust, and I agree that we should simply trust that we are being sanctified rather depending on trying to “feel” it happening.

However, I do believe that believers do have inward “feelings” as a result of the Spirit’s work. 1 John 2:27 says, “And as for you, the anointing which you have received from Him abides in you, and you have no need that anyone teach you; but as His anointing teaches you concerning all things and is true and is not a lie, and even as it has taught you, abide in Him.” Romans 8:6 says “the mind set on the flesh is death, but the mind set on the spirit is life and peace.”

Some everyday examples: A believer may be proud or discouraged because of their growth and fruitfulness, and yet have an uneasy feeling of dryness, darkness and death about their pride or discouragement: that’s the Spirit telling them to get out of there and to turn to Christ. The Lord may shine on a specific sin and we may feel uneasy and unhappy until we confess it, after which we have life and peace. A minister may be exhorting a group of believers or a father exhorting and disciplining his children (cf. Acts 14:22; Eph. 6:5; 1 Thes. 2:11, 4:1, 5:14) and have an uneasy sense inwardly that their words are crossing the line and are coming across as “law,” and thus adjust the emphasis of their speaking. A believer who has not read the Bible or had personal time with the Lord in days, weeks, months may inwardly feel uneasy, dry and depressed, even though there is no “law” that tells us how often we need to read the Bible or how much personal time we need to spend with the Lord. Sometimes we may exchange words with our spouse, and although we didn’t say or do anything objectively sinful and many people would defend what we said, we may still have no peace or rest within--that even if what we said was not objectively wrong it did not from Christ--and then ask for forgiveness.

I don’t think that we should rely on such incidents as if we don’t have them that means we’re not being sanctified. And of course we have the written word of God outside of us as our objective guide to that we have a criterion by which to discern what is and is not of the Spirit. But I do think that such things are part of the Lord’s inward shepherding of our souls. Christ Himself is in us, and hence believers may experience what we might call “contradictions,” in which we sense that He is wanting to do one thing in us and we are wanting to do another. If we ignore Him He still loves us unconditionally, but we may realize that we feel uneasy, dry, and unhappy within as a result, and need to confess and come back to Him.

To use an analogy, I can "trust" that the food I eat is being digested properly without needing to "feel" myself digesting. However, if I have indigestion and can feel my stomach and intestines working, it means there is some problem that needs to be taken care of. In the same way, as we pray and eat the word of God we can trust His work through the Spirit will operate within us, but as it operates it may come across hindrances along the way and that's when we start "feeling" uneasy, dark, dry, and it may expose something in us that the Lord wants us to confess or take care of before He will take the next step of sanctifying us.

Further, I also believe that the genuine pursuit of Christ, righteousness, holiness, etc. as described and admonished in Scripture, has a different flavor and emphasis in our experience than relying upon our self-effort. This Christ-centered pursuit also doesn't end in pride or despair as long as it is continuing. And I believe that more we pass through the Romans 7 experience, the more we can tell the difference between the two not just in doctrine but in practice. The Romans 7 experience causes us both to realize how deeply we need a Savior and to know the difference between self-effort and walking by the Spirit in the pursuit of God's pleasure.

Brandon,
I agree with much of your response to Aaron... though I fully buy into the Law/Gospel distinction. I completely agree as well that the Holy Spirit indwells the believer. But it isn't some 6th sense that makes us feel His presence... that kind of talk is more closely related to the holiness movement and charismatics. It is known by faith... belief... trust. We, as Christians, are walking paradoxes... justified, sanctified and being sanctified, waiting to be glorified all the while sinful. We sin... it is inevitable. How much sin is too much? I don't know... I simply live in light of God's good gift of being justified... knowing I'm being sanctified... trusting He will one day raise me to a resurrected life. It is all His work completely.

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@Amy
Amen, well said. My impression is that Paul Zahl is not giving advice to husbands specifically, but he’s giving examples of how it is bad for us to mix the law with grace.

--
@Mitchell
I’m not sure that any of the commenters here are saying that you have to “exhibit something in order to be granted the title ‘Christian’”. At any rate, I don’t call the aforementioned NT imperatives “law” because the apostles do not call them that, and not only so, they base these imperatives on grace ("since Christ has done this, therefore you can do this") even right after contrasting law and grace in the same books, chapters or verses. I don’t believe that I’m trying to avoid “law” that’s actually there in the passages, but rather desiring that Christ and the apostles’ grace-based, life-giving imperatives would not be heard as killing legalities.

For instance, a word like “But I say, Walk by the Spirit and you shall by no means fulfill the lust of the flesh” is not meant to be “law” to us but to alert us to the reality of walking by the Spirit in Christ Jesus. Such a word supplies us with truth and life. If we didn’t have such a word, we might easily become so preoccupied by our failures and weaknesses (that is, with our self) that we would interpret reality through the lens of our own experience and not even believe that there is such a thing as walking by the Spirit. Of course there’s grace and forgiveness day by day when we inevitably fail, but yet words like these deliver us from the concept that the Christian life nothing more than being in bondage to sin and weakness yet being forgiven.

--
@Aaron,
The Scripture does use words like “strive,” “labor,” “work,” and “exercise,” so I think it is good to point this out.

But I do believe that in our experience our natural self-efforts to please God or become like Jesus are often mistaken for genuine dependence upon the Spirit of Jesus Christ.

For example, some people are just naturally more good, more moral, more pious, more capable, more put-together, more goal-oriented, more strong and hard-working than others, and when they become Christians they try to please God with that same natural “goodness,” except now they’ve picked up a doctrinal concept that the Spirit is there to empower them. They may find it hard to sympathize with people who always seem to fail, and may consider themselves to be more blessed that they succeed where others have failed. Because they have their Spirit-empowered successes and victories in mind, they don’t understand why it is so hard for some people to “just stop” sinning certain sins. Hence, they are more willing than others to suspect that those who do not bear fruit as well as they do are not regenerated Christians.

If that is a person’s actual condition, then it would actually be a blessing for them pass through a Romans 7 experience, in which the harder they try to please God (keep the law) the harder they fail, until they come to the end of their self-efforts and lose all hope in themselves. Actually, we all need the Romans 7 experience, because we are all naturally independent and used to doing things by self-effort, we all have opinions or expectations of what God should or should not do for us if we simply “keep our end of the bargain,” even if we have the concept that we need to depend on God. During such failures and trials we can begin to learn the difference--in our experience, not just in outward doctrine--between self-effort and the reality of Galatians 2:19-20: “ For I through law have died to law that I might live to God. I am crucified with Christ; It is no longer I that lives, but it is Christ who lives in me.” It's not our effort to do something or be something "good" that God wants. The only thing that pleases God is Christ: Christ for our justification, and Christ in our daily living. God’s good pleasure and perfect will and the believer’s rule of life is not merely how good something is (the law) but who is doing it. What pleases God is Christ Himself living in us and with us, and being expressed through us. Incidentally and spontaneously this will fulfill the moral law's righteous requirement as we walk by the Spirit (Rom. 8:2-4), but it is not exactly the same as trying to keep the law and it is more than law-keeping. What we call effort, morality or law-keeping might actually even be taking the place of Christ as our center and His living in us, especially if we have little or no experience of the Spirit breaking and terminating our self-efforts through the application of the power of Christ’s cross. I believe that it is through our failures that we begin learn to realize the difference between self-effort and Christ living in us in our experience.

And that’s what I believe is the difficulty with the current “law and gospel” conversation as regards Christian growth and maturity. Both “sides” of the issue are talking all about “law” and “gospel” (conceived of in primarily judicial terms, e.g. justification by grace) but neither has much to say about Christ living in and with the believers, which is in another “dimension” than mere morality or simply being justified and forgiven. Little or no attention is paid to how our morality might increasingly conform to the moral law of God and yet all the while we can miss Christ actually increasing in us and saturating our being (Gal. 4:19; Eph 3:17; Phil. 3:7-16). Little or no substantial or intrinsic difference is seen between the morality of Job and the “Christ living in us” experience of the apostle Paul.

In the end one side emphasizes that we need to look to moral law on top of gospel for sanctification and expend our effort to keep it; and the other side says no, emphasizing law on top of gospel detracts from gospel and it will only result in self-righteousness or despair. Each has their bible verses, traditional theological reasonings and everyday examples, but neither talks about how Christ living in us is more than justification and yet different in focus and flavor than looking to the moral law for our rule of life, our measure of sanctification and our ultimate standard of what pleases God. It’s like trying to talk about a three-dimensional reality in terms of a two-dimensional perspective, like arguing in circles about whether a person who is fiscally conservative and socially liberal is a “conservative” or a “liberal.” Both sides have real points but neither has a broad enough perspective that can include the whole picture. All the while the Bible has more to reveal about Jesus Christ than just law and justification by grace through faith. Christ is more than the law and He is more to us than justification. Law and justification are are judicial categories; but Christ is more than our Lord and Savior judicially and objectively, He is also our life organically and subjectively.

The dichotomy between law and gospel (as justification) is the key to seeing the error of trying to earn justification or assurance of salvation through our efforts or merits, and this key was desperately needed at the time of the Reformation. But it is not the only key to interpreting everything in the Bible, in the Christian life, or concerning God's eternal economy concerning Christ and the church.

TT (Thomas), thanks. Agreed Wholeheartedly.

Amy, thanks for helping clarify the original illustration. But, it still doesn't square with reality. If the husband is analogous with the Law, then the Law is a sinner. It seems to place the majority of the blame onto the husband. How in the world can we blame the Law for our multiplied transgressions? We sin, the Law can’t sin. As stated above, the Law is good.

“But the older he gets, the more anxious he becomes when she is just being herself.” (The Law gets anxious? See Philippians 4:6.)
and
“He is becoming more “Type A” in relation to the house.”

Does the Law of God change? That’s seems like an odd thing to say, but let’s look a little deeper, because it may be true. But maybe not. The Law isn’t just one thing, but a few.
Moral Law, Ceremonial Law, and Judicial Law.
We aren’t under the Law for justification, for it is insufficient for that purpose. I’m assuming we (Protestants) agree about that, so no need to speak into that. Let’s look deeper at the three aspects and what roles they have:

Christ fulfilled the Ceremonial Law. Pow. THANK YOU JESUS!
We aren’t Hebrews, so the Judicial Law doesn’t apply...
So, for the Moral Law...

It seems that the “en vogue” thing these days to lump the Moral Law into the same category as the other two, to treat it as unneeded. Is that the picture we get from Scripture? No. We’ve seen some of these passages commented above. Christ said, “If you love me, you will keep my commandments.” John 14:15
What did He command? John Piper wrote a book about it. "What Jesus Demands from the World". His list includes 50 commands from Scripture.

Life led by the Spirit will be full of learning and following better Christ’s demands. (If obeying wasn’t necessary, then repenting would be optional. And it would be heretical to think that one could be forgiven without repenting.)
Also, read Psalm 119 (and so many others) that have their major theme as God’s commandments. If these are speaking of only the Ceremonial or the Judicial law, then they don’t make much sense anymore.
Those who are in Christ Jesus have been saved by grace, and are under grace, not the condemnation of the Law! Praise God! But, we are not released from the instruction of the Law. Condemnation and instruction are different.

Does the Moral law help those under the New Covenant? Absolutely. One way is the Holy Spirit uses it to convict us when we sin and point us back to the ways of Jesus. We should see that He was the only one to obey perfectly FOR us, and then IN us.

The writer of Hebrews agrees. He quotes Jeremiah 31 in Hebrews 8 & 10.
“This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, declares the Lord: I will put my laws on their hearts, and write them on their minds,...”
Why would God write His laws in our minds & hearts if we weren’t supposed to dwell on them and TRY HARD to live according to them so as to please our Father in heaven?

The Christian life is not only resting in the finished work of Jesus, it is walking by the Spirit, and standing against the enemy.
Read the book of Ephesians to see 3 postures. (SIT, WALK & STAND)

One more thing about the illustration. The analogy is telling us that we will obey more/better if we DIDN’T have the law instructing/reminding us what is right. Can someone give me a scripture (in context) that prescribes this?

Sorry for the long post. Thanks for reading. Love to hear your thoughts. Christ be exalted.

I've heard from many people that "trying hard" isn't biblical b/c it isn't resting in the Spirit doing in us what we can't do. BUT, Christians are new creations in Christ Jesus created for good works. We have the power of the Spirit within us that we must appropriate. We have to DECIDE to obey, not just rest our way through it.

The Westminster Conf. of Faith Ch 16, article 3 says:
iii. Their ability to do good works is not at all of themselves, but wholly from the Spirit of Christ.(1) And that they may be enabled thereunto, beside the graces they have already received, there is required an actual influence of the same Holy Spirit to work in them to will and to do of His good pleasure:(2) yet are they not hereupon to grow negligent, as if they were not bound to perform any duty unless upon a special motion of the Spirit; but they ought to be diligent in stirring up the grace of God that is in them.(3)
1. (1) Jn 15:4,5,6; Eze 36:26,27.
2. (2) Php 2:13; Php 4:13; 2Co 3:5.
3. (3) Php 2:12; Heb 6:11,12; 2Pe 1:3,5,10,11; Isa 64:7; 2Ti 1:6; Ac 26:6,7; Jude 20,21.

"Trying hard" is the definition of "strive". Strive is found throughout Scripture.
Here's every time from the N.T. And, it's pretty whether or not God would have us "try hard".
Luke 13
22  He went on his way through towns and villages, teaching and journeying toward Jerusalem. 23 And someone said to him, “Lord,will those who are saved be few?” And he said to them, 24  “STRIVE to enter through the narrow door. For many, I tell you, will seek to enter and will not be able. 25  When once the master of the house has risen and shut the door, and you begin to stand outside and to knock at the door, saying, ‘Lord, open to us,’ then he will answer you, ‘I do not know where you come from.’

Romans 15
30 I appeal to you, brothers, by our Lord Jesus Christ and by the love of the Spirit, to STRIVE together with me in your prayers to God on my behalf, 31  that I may be delivered from the unbelievers in Judea, and that my service for Jerusalem may be acceptable to the saints,32 so that by God's will I may come to you with joy and be refreshed in your company.

1 Cor 14
10 There are doubtless many different languages in the world, and none is without meaning, 11 but if I do not know the meaning of the language, I will be a foreigner to the speaker and the speaker a foreigner to me. 12 So with yourselves, since you are eager for manifestations of the Spirit, STRIVE to excel in building up the church.

1 Tim 4
6  If you put these things before the brothers, you will be a good servant of Christ Jesus, being trained in the words of the faith and of the good doctrine that you have followed. 7 Have nothing to do with irreverent, silly myths. Rather train yourself for godliness; 8 for while bodily training is of some value, godliness is of value in every way, as it holds promise for the present life and also for the life to come.9 The saying is trustworthy and deserving of full acceptance. 10 For to this end we toil and STRIVE, because we have our hope set on the living God, who is the Savior of all people, especially of those who believe.

Heb 4
8 For if Joshua had given them rest, God[b] would not have spoken of another day later on. 9 So then, there remains a Sabbath rest for the people of God, 10 for whoever has entered God's rest has also rested from his works as God did from his.
11 Let us therefore STRIVE to enter that rest, so that no one may fall by the same sort of disobedience. 12 For the word of God is living and active, sharper than any two-edged sword, piercing to the division of soul and of spirit, of joints and of marrow, and discerning the thoughts and intentions of the heart. 13 And no creature is hidden from his sight, but all are naked and exposed to the eyes of him to whom we must give account.

Grace enables our striving. Not, striving as the enemy of grace. Thanks be to God!

The life of marriage is one of successes and failures, offenses and forgiveness, good days and bad days. To keep track (score or progress if you will) is pointless. To keep track of change within the individual parties is a grinding notion of anal retentiveness. You're married. It is neither "let go and let Bob or Nancy" nor is it a matter of "20 offenses yesterday vs. only 5 today." You're in a marriage... now go and live! So is the same with our life as believers. There is grace for every transgression against the One who FIRST LOVED US. God has rules... yes... and the Lutheran or Reformed along with every other individual breaks those rules; many times over I might add regardless of "how much change" we think we've mustered up over the years. It is a life lived in Law and Gospel. No matter how "Reformed" or "Lutheran" (pick your own label) I might become I have one place to go for "Grace" WHEN I fail... the Gospel of Christ. The Good News of my being justified apart from the Law... grace-fueled imperatives... or whatever other convenient classification we want to create to avoid the word 'Law.' If you tell me I have to exhibit something in order to be granted the title 'Christian'... trust me when I say... it hits my ears as Law.

@ Brandon E
I haven't read the book, so I read the illustration as a mere metaphor, but it sounds like he actually is giving advice to husbands, my apologies.

Paul says that the Law awakens sin and resistance in us: "But sin, taking opportunity through the commandment, produced in me coveting of every kind; for apart from the Law sin is dead."(Romans 7:8)
"What shall we say then? Is the Law sin? May it never be!" (Romans 7:7) Our actions and reactions are sinful, not the Law.

The illustration serves as an example from everyday life of what the Law does--all it can do--and that is notice. It is a mirror, and when we look at ourselves in that mirror, it tells us the truth about who we are. It does not change us, it just points out our flaws. And then --Hallelujah!--the power of the Gospel has a chance to free and change us, not because we TRY HARD to do God's holy and perfect Law, but because the Spirit of God is able to do all.

"The Law says, "Do this!" and it is never done;
Grace says, "Believe in this," and everything is already done."

Great post Jim. I'm a firefighter and I have thought how many firemen have died in the line of duty to save lives and property - talk about a worthwhile good work. Yet it isn't enough to save where God is concerned. You're right - much of what we get is nothing more than "Jesus-flavored" moralism. B.S. is right on!

Here's the way I've been thinking about it.

Let's suppose for a minute, for an experiment, that Jesus' blood is absolutely 100% sufficient to save us, to justify us, for every sin large and great, past present and future. All of them. If not, then His blood isn't really what saves us, it is that other thing that disqualifies His blood that saves us. If you don't believe that His blood shed on the cross is what saves us, then you are not really technically a Christian. You are a moralist with a "Christian" flavor to it.

This means that as many of us are true Christians, we have won the spiritual lottery. We can in fact sin all the more. Grace will actually increase. The question becomes, now that you have your scandalous and outrageous freedom, how are you going to live? Can you still be a Christian and stick your hand into a meat grinder? Sure, are you crazy though? Once you have real freedom, thorough freedom, what are you going to do with yourself?

Take someone that won the lottery and has no idea how to live as a rich person. They might go to Wal-mart and load up on all of the worthless mass-produced crap they always wanted. That is their freedom. Suppose they ran into a rich person who has experience with wealth. They will say, "you went to WALMART? You need to hire a personal chef, who will determine your ultimate health and taste and will travel to the local dairies and cheese makers and wineries and organic farms and grass-fed beef and such, and will obtain the ultimate quality and freshness of produce. Don't go to Walmart any more! Paul is that rich person. We are the newly wealthy that don't quite know what to do with ourselves.

Paul says, in the middle of talking about the most heinous and awful of sexually perverse sins, that all things are lawful but not all things are profitable. He says that those who do things will not inherit the kingdom because they are not rich; they are obsessed with the glory of the forbidden and are still under the demand and allure of the law. Profit is more powerful than coercion, because it appeals to the desire and the heart, and produces heart level change that doesn't even need to be celebrated because it is no longer even heroic.

More here: http://thereforenow.com/2012/02/christian-virtue-vs-walmart/

Now, I admit it, I am going to get a bit assertive. Let's hear Kevin "condemning exegete" D. or his supporters exegete 1 Corinthians 6:9-14 without downplaying or glossing over the "all things are lawful" clause! We need a movie: "Exegete This!" If your point of view can't harmonize Romans 3-5 with Romans 12 as being part of the same grand point then you have nothing different than Islam or Mormonism. Which is to say that you have got nothing but fear-mongering and moralizing and condemnation and you need to go back and understand what the cross of Christ is about. The central arch of the Bible is Romans, and the central arch of Romans is romans 3, and the central word of Romans 3 is propitiation. You either exegete in harmony with it or you condemn everyone, and ignoring the grand context of the BIBLE is bad exegesis no matter how many Greek words you quote. I am totally sick of people watering down the gospel, but particularly in the name of good exegesis! I call B.S. on that one.

Aaron,
Believing IS hard work! Resting in Him is hard work. I know people who do not even attend church that will attest to striving for your entire list is a good thing to do... besides believing. That's the silly part of Christianity... to them... sin, confessing, believing we are forgiven. Not too long ago a friend told me (who I assume is not a believer) that patience, kindness, helping the needy, loving others... you get the point... that all of these things are what matters. So don't get your list worked out to take to God to offer it to Him. Are they humanly good things to do? Yes! But they don't do a thing to advance one toward God.
Your problem (along with many others here)is you think everyone needs your advice as to how they should be living. We're grown-ups with big boy and big girl underwear on. I think we can manage without your lists of 'what and what nots' to be doing. I read the same Bible you do.
"Belief in God's grace - Alone" That is hard striving my friend... if you find it easy to do... hang out there man... we'll join you one day.

Hi Steve,
I think the thing is that while we might believe that the Lord has forgiven us the penalties of our sins because of what He has done, we might at the same remain in unbelief concerning verses like Gal. 5:16-26 or Rom. 8:2-13, which speak of our being delivered from the power of sin because of what He has done.

In Galatians 5:16, the apostle Paul says, “But I say, Walk by the Spirit and you shall by no means fulfill the lust of the flesh.” Because of what Christ has accomplished the Spirit of Christ is in us, the redeemed and regenerated believers; therefore we can walk by the Spirit and by no means walk fulfill the lusts of the flesh. Of course, none of us always walks by the Spirit, just as none of us always lives in continual awareness of Christ's love and forgiveness; we all are learning and we need help from others. But to me it seems that to entirely disbelieve or neglect such words because we are so conscious of our sins and failures is to be more focused on self than on upon what Christ has done, and to place our experience ahead of the inspired word of Scripture.

In short, we all fail and our flesh of sin never improves, but this does not change the fact that the NT apostles did speak of diligence, pursuing, and the reality of Christian growth and maturity for the building up of the Body of Christ, not of complete passivity (“relaxing” in that sense) or of all imperatives being “the law” and therefore powerless to encourage us to lay hold of Christ who is our life in the Spirit.

--
@John Dunn,
Amen, well said again. I especially like “Apostolic imperatives, then, are for the Spirit-indwelled Saints and are intended to give-life, heal, restore, correct, cleanse, build-up, instruct, and move us onward to greater degrees of Christ-like glory.”

--
@Amy
I checked the reference in Paul Zahl’s book, Grace in Practice: A Theology of Everyday Life.

In context, he is speaking about the separation between law and grace, evidenced by John 1:17, and then he writes, “The biblical distinction is true in everyday life. [paragraph break] Here is an example:” and there begins the portion Pastor Tullian quotes. So he is present an example from everyday life, not a mere metaphor. Paul Zahl follows up with more “everyday” examples, in which people lecture others or parents lecture their children in the name of love, but the listeners only hear law and not grace.

So he is not speaking metaphorically about the law itself or blaming the law for “noticing” (after all, the apostle Paul says in Romans 7 that the Law is holy, and the commandment holy, and righteous and good). He’s giving examples of how we misuse the law in everyday life by mixing law in with grace and trying to make others improve themselves. The husband in the example could very well be you or me. Implicitly there is a thought of what we, like the husband in the example, should or should not doing, or of what we should think or should not think. The purpose seems more prescriptive than merely descriptive, for in the book Paul Zahl criticizes the anti-grace worldview he is targeting as being “religious,” “semi-Pelagian,” “self-righteous” and as taking after the Pharisees.

So while I think pastor Tullian is presenting a good and needed point, I would suggest that there is an unresolved inconsistency if it is not clearly admitted that not every imperative or reproof is “law” that begets resistance.

If we want to motivate others to honor Christ with their lives (grow in holiness, sanctification, mortification of sin, loving the poor etc.) but keep all "works" 100% Spirit-empowered and grounded in what Christ has already done, should we then preach 100% grace? Or should we preach grace and THEN say "now you're free to go do, work, live big for the Kingdom"?

Watch on YouTube the video episode by reformed forum on sanctification. It is worth the watch. They challenge Tullians view and make a good biblical case.

"The very commandment sthat promised life... So the law is holy, and the commandment is holy and righteous and good. Did that which is good, then, bring death to me? By no means! It was sin, producing death in me through what is good, in order that sin might be shown to be sin, and through the commandment might become sinful beyond measure... I myself serve the law of God with my mind..."

It is still the law, even though it is by the Spirit it is served by those who have died in Christ and not by the written code which the only way the unspiritual man, can: "For the mind that is set on the flesh is hostile to God, for it does not submit to God's law; indeed, it cannot. Those who are in the flesh cannot please God." Paul declared himself a minister of the Gospel and so he served the law by the Spirit. So, in other words, he also declared himself a servant of the law. To say that the commandments are not law by calling them-grace filled imperatives is to equivocate. The law embodies the Gospel and the Gospel is the expression of the law: “Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. For truly, I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not an iota, not a dot, will pass from the Law until all is accomplished. Therefore whoever relaxes one of the least of these commandments and teaches others to do the same will be called least in the kingdom of heaven, but whoever does them and teaches them will be called great in the kingdom of heaven. For I tell you, unless your righteousness exceeds that of the scribes and Pharisees, you will never enter the kingdom of heaven."

As Michael Horton would say, it is not that the law has been diminished, or eliminated, rather, it has been greatly exalted. Jesus doesn't make the Law and the Prophets less binding, but more so. As Paul said it was the law which showed him how exceedingly sinful sin was and why lsw was necessary, namely so that, by grace he might serve the law. It wasn't so that by grace he didn't need to. To the contrary, he followed Christ, cut after the same pattern and expected Timothy in his doctrine and practice to do the same, teaching everyone everywhere to obey those authorities (husband, bosses, governments) so that the Gospel would not be blasphemed. Law is necessary discipleship. Without it, with the cavalier, we don't need no stinkin' law, the husband should just shut up, and stop noticing, we would have "The Lord of the Flies." Chaos is not authored by God but order, and order, whether TT likes it or not, takes law.

@Amy, that is one of the more sensible things I've read on here. Right on!

This is a metaphor, not marriage counseling. No one is telling any pretend or actual husbands to do anything in this example. The law is COMPARED to a husband, we are COMPARED to a wife... It is a picture, and one that has good Biblical precedence (Romans 7). The husband wants the wife to do good things, just as the Law tells us to do good things--the best things, in fact. The problem comes in our response and our inability to do these good things. The suggestion that the husband is being given an imperative and that this makes the author inconsistent, in my opinion, is kind of silly.

Thanks, Brandon.

Thanks, Chris.

__

My whole point in all of this is that it is far too late to clean ourselves up and become the kind of person that God desires us to be.

But Jesus is that person in our stead and that is more than good enough. Relax...and live...in Him. He will take care of forming you. Don't worry about how you are doing. I can tell you how you are doing. Not too good. Not much better than I am doing.

"What is it to do the works of the Father?" "Believe in the one whom the Father has sent."

Tullian,
My entire church background has been rooted in the Calvary Chapel movement. I am new to this whole law-gospel thing but am totally being blown away by it. I was curious, which books or authors helped you to understand these truths? Thanks

Steve,

I understand your emphasis in all of this, and I do get your points. Trust me, I really get the emphasis of looking outside of myself for my assurance, in looking to the finished work of Christ for my justification and sanctification.

But skipping all of the theological or Biblical issues, my point is to expose an inconsistency in this very blog post. As I mentioned above, not even this blog post on "grace" is void from the "law" that you fear. There is something wrong with the entire paradigm and way of dividing "law" and "grace."

As I said before, the irony is that at the hinge of this article is a demand- for the husband to “just stop noticing.” So in this article about grace, a “law” is at the heart of it. If you read the 3rd to last sentence, there's even an "if." How do you explain these things within your paradigm? That is my question.

You might not properly apply the explicit imperatives of the New Testament, but you tell the husband to "just stop noticing"? Sounds like a law demand to me.

God bless.

@Brandon E

I wholheartedly concur with your observations regarding grace-filled imperatives for new covenant beleivers. The apostle Paul's epistles are filled with such imperatives. Paul was not a minister of the Law or of death. In fact, Paul specifically identified himself as a minister of the "new covenant" and of the Spirit . . . a ministry which gives life! (2 Cor 3:6)

Paul then compares and contrasts his "new covenant" ministry of the Spirit with the "old covenant" ministry of the Law of Moses which has passed away (2 Cor 3:7-18).

The "new covenant" ministry of the Spirit is described in this passage as a ministry of: life-giving, surpassing glory, righteousness, permanence, freedom, and transformation from one degreee of glory to another into Christ's image.

The "old covenant" (v14) Law, on the other hand, is described as a ministry of: killing letter, death, condemnation, having no glory, being brought to an end, and an enslaving veil of hardening.

Therefore, to say that Paul's letters contain killing "law" imperatives for believers is to grossly misunderstand the New Covenant ministry of the life-giving Spirit which he administered, and of which we presently partake!

Apostolic imperatives, then, are for the Spirit-indwelled Saints and are intended to give-life, heal, restore, correct, cleanse, build-up, instruct, and move us onward to greater degrees of Christ-like glory.

As such, those who are led by the Spirit are not under the rule or condemnation of the Law (Gal 5:18).

I agree with Paul Zahl's main point. An aroma of judgmentalism, fastidiousness and accusation will depress or antagonize most people long before it would ever positively inspire or motivate.

However, is it not accurate to say that not all reproof or discipline has an unloving, judgmental aroma behind it? I would say that the Lord is an expert at applying discipline with an aroma that is genuinely loving.

The resurrected Lord Jesus Himself said, "As many as I love I reprove and discipline; be zealous therefore and repent" (Rev. 3:19). God's love means unconditional care, tender concern and acceptance, and at the same time it also means that He loves us too much to let us remain in our errors, and this does mean reproof and discipline from time to time. Hebrews ch. 12 reads, "For whom the Lord loves He disciplines, and He scourges every son whom He receives," (v.6) and goes on to say that "if we are without discipline, of which all sons have become partakers, then you are illegitimate and not sons" (v. 8), that God's discipline is "profitable that we might partake of His holiness" (v. 10) and that it yields the peaceable fruit of righteousness (v. 11). Such discipline can at times feel painful (v. 11) but His love covers us such that we do not lose our assurance while we are being disciplined.

Now I don't think such passages about discipline should be our emphasis. I bring these passages up to point out that not all reproof discipline has an unloving aroma or is against grace. The problem is not that all imperatives, reproof or discipline are absolutely "the law" that can only kill and that to suggest otherwise is to water down grace, but that we might turn all reproof and discipline into killing law, towards others or toward ourselves, by importing a legal mentality or attitude into everything.


@Chris Julian
The irony is that at the hinge of this article is a demand- for the husband to “just stop noticing.” So in this article about grace, a “law” is at the heart of it. Anyone else notice these things?
Yes, I think there is a basic inconsistency at work in which it is insisted that demands or imperatives are the not-grace "law" that kills and yet there is a demand to be more gospel-centered, to stop being legalistic, or, in this instance, that the husband "just stop noticing."

@John Dunn,
Well said. The traditional "law and gospel" framework concerns itself with legal, judicial, forensic categories and doesn't even address the Spirit of Jesus Christ indwelling us subjectively to be our life: the "much more salvation" in the life of Christ that is "much more" than merely being reconciled judicially to God (Rom. 5:10), the complete gospel that not only includes Christ as our forensic, objective righteousness but "Christ in you the hope of glory" (Col. 1:25-29, cf. Gal. 2:20, 4:19; Eph. 3:14-21) according to which we are organically sanctified, renewed, transformed and conformed unto the image of Christ through His Spirit's inward operation for the building up the church as the corporate kingdom, Body, dwelling place and bride. Small wonder, then, when some Reformed evangelicals end up talking in circles while trying to fit the entire economy of God into a law and gospel dichotomy!


@Steve M.,
The Holy Spirit is quite capable of inspiring the works in the sinner.
But through what means does the Spirit do this? Primarily through God's word which through the Spirit's power produces faith in the hearers. And God's word does not only proclaim law then justification by grace through faith (and hence the imperatives to believe, to trust in what He has done, to live in freedom from the law) but also that Christ is our life by which we grow (hence imperatives to abide in Him, walk by the Spirit, to pursue Christ, righteousness, holiness, etc.). Thus, the New Testament apostles consistently directed imperatives to the believers that were based upon and rooted in what Christ has done and what He is to us (e.g. Galatians chs. 5-6), what we might describe as "grace-filled imperatives."

The apostle Paul described the Christian life as an active pursuit of Christ and a race we should run as if to lay hold of the prize, admonishing us to pursue and run in this way (Phil. 3:8-16; 1 Cor. 9:24-27); and the apostle Peter spoke of adding all diligence to supply to our faith virtue, knowledge, self-control, endurance, godliness, brotherly love and love (2 Pet. 1:3-11); but it seems that there is only room in your theological cosmos for a "religious rat-wheel."

Now I'm not saying that Kevin DeYoung's emphasis is right. It does seem to me that he overemphasizes the word "effort" and underestimates the Romans 7 experience when describing how Christians are sanctified; and I don't believe that "the law" is God's perfect will and the believers' "rule of life." (I'm on board with Pastor Tullian on these points.) But I do disagree with the concept that imperatives must always turn us away from Christ into ourselves and that there is no such thing as a Christ-centered pursuit of growth.

Imperatives that tell us to stop trying to keep the law for our justification are there to remind us that Christ is our redeemer, that we are already justified in Him, and that we can live in that freedom. Imperatives that tell us to pursue Christ, walk in the Spirit, bear fruit, pursue righteousness and holiness, etc. remind us that Christ is our life and hence we can live by Him. Hence, such words are there in the Bible as means for the Holy Spirit to enlighten us that we might grow and bear fruit by the full knowledge of God in Christ (Col. 1:10; Eph. 4:13; 2 Pet 3:18).

It is a very clear and simple concept, but it is hard to fit into a dichotomy of law and gospel (which is actually more relevant when we're talking about the legal basis for justification, forgiveness and assurance), especially if we are pre-committed to a doctrine that says that all imperatives=law and all indicatives=gospel. And the fact that we can become self-righteous or self-condemning about our work, fruit or how well we get the gospel, as if these were matters of law and not of grace, is a problem in the legalistic human heart, not in the New Testament grace-filled imperatives themselves.

Chris,

You're putting (and DeYoung does this, as well) the focus on the sinner.

The Holy Spirit is quite capable of inspiring the works in the sinner.

The law needs to be proclaimed (not to make us better Christians - that is NOT going to happen).

The law can only make you worse, "when the law came in, sin increased."

As I have said before, this ladder-climbing Christianism just leads to self-righteousness...or despair.

You want REAL assurance? Look outside of yourself. Read this 1 minute D. Word :

http://1minutedailyword.com/2012/05/13/matthew-2819-2/


There, you can have assurance and get off the religious rat-wheel.

Pastor
I believe the husband should hire a maid to clean the house. It seems that the wife is domestically challenged. If the husband doesn't want a maid then, he should clean up and shut up, in my opinion.

the bride enters a season of purification in anticipation of the bridegroom’s return and not knowing the time of his return, she lives in a state of perpetual readiness;even now, belonging as a wife to her husband,under his authority, remaining faithful; This is a trustworthy statement: if we died with Him, we will also live with Him; if we endure, we will also reign with Him; if we deny Him, He also will deny us; if we are faithless, He remains faithful, for He cannot deny Himself. 2 Tim 2:12-13

HB: in short, Tullian places the weight of our Christian life in the priority of justification. We are to look to our justification, see the grace of God, and then we are assured and rest in what Christ has done. Gratitude towards God for his grace leads to a renewed life.

Kevin DeYoung includes this emphasis but also goes beyond it, and includes the exhortations that we find in the New Testament. Simply read through one of Paul's letters and you will find DeYoung's emphasis to be Biblical.

For more reading, see these two posts (and all their links as well): http://theaquilareport.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=4898:the-role-of-effort-in-sanctification--a-dialogue-between-kevin-deyoung-and-tullian-tchividjian&catid=79:commentary&Itemid=137 and http://greenbaggins.wordpress.com/2011/08/15/some-thoughts-on-william-evanss-ref21-piece/

Steve, I would encourage you to deal with my, John Dunn's, and Aaron's comments above if you want to further this discussion. It seems that we (all 3) have noticed some inconsistencies in this post that should be addressed if this conversation is going to be legitimately continued. Otherwise I don't think that much more needs to be said.

God bless.

DeYoung's message at the T4G conference was "Spirit-Powered, Gospel-Driven, Faith-Fueled Effort." Effort does seem to be a big part of his message. D.L. Carson uses the phrase "Grace Driven Effort." That seems to match Tullian's message of more grace will produce good works. Our motive of effort is more important than the deed. Would Kevin and Tullian agree on that? Another question. When looking at the imperatives of the Bible can you always preface it with our indicative of who we are in Christ?

Kevin DeYoung palces the onus back onto 'you'. It's all inward, self-absorbed religion. He knows the gospel, but his biblicism cannot tear him away from trying to use the law to make people 'better Christians'. That's never going to happen.The law (what 'we do') will only drive people to despair, or make them prideful, or make them into phonies who are just playing the game.

In any event, there is NO assurance there.

Mike brings up a point that I too need clarification on. What is the main difference in Tullian's message and Kevin Deyoung? Where do they agree?

[...] Law Begets Resistance [...]

Hi friends!

My favorite part of this post is the Her Highness Lady Gaga's Bad Romance photo. Talk about your perfect example of law begetting resistance! Nothing like unadulterated musical talent and a straight-laced Catholic High School upbringing to create a musical icon bent on being anything but normal in society. So yes, this post is about a Bad Romance, but the law's resistance applies to our pop stars too!

B

No insult intended Tullian but when I shared your view with others. They said you don't spend much time in the text expositionally but just talk about it with generalities and theological overviews. why do you just talk a lot with a lot of great phrases and all but don't really exegete the text. Sure it's good to have an overview And I love your stuff. You said the passage was on 5:1-13 but I didn't hear you go through it. You'd say overall it's about Him and not us. Ok I agree but show us from the passage. Why can't you do both- give your awesome phrases and quotes but also go into the text? I don't know. Just a thought

Tullian please help. I just watched Kevin Deyoungs sermon series on his church website called A Hole in our Holiness where he seems to be arguing against your position without naming you. He says Jesus tells us to strive to enter the narrow gate. Ch7 says the wise man does these things. He said he prays to be pure in heart so he can see God day to day. Because if we're not we won't. He quotes all the imperatives and says its fueled by the gospel but we have to work out what He is working in us. He quoted Calvin who said sanctification is a hard arduous task whereby we put off and put on things, we pick up our cross and die daily etc. what do you say?

I just did a post on how love is effortlessly resistant to coercion, and that grace is the only air that love breathes. It harmonizes with the ideas here pretty closely:

http://thereforenow.com/2012/05/grace-is-the-air-that-love-breathes/

Another great post, thanks!

Alright, who's been watching my wife and me? :D

Seriously, excellent illustration, and convicting.

Initially the marriage had immaturity in it. And it appears that one of the children didn't grow up. Not noticing doesn't work. It will, in fact, be ignored. So what, if she just wants to act more like a spoiled child? God's response to no law in the hearts of his children, and the rebellion the insued out of them, was to increase, not decrease the law. To punish, not to pamper. As a school teacher, law is meant to lead to repentance. It is a necessary tool of leadership. Without law, there is no need for repentance. I can't imagine discipling on that basis. I wouldn't begin to know what that would look like. I get the fact that being a constant drip causes one to seek shelter in the corner of the house, but what if that corner is the only place left unscathed by the recalcitrant clutter-bug? There are multiple problems with the idea that law increases sin in the sense that it is stated here. By virtue of there being law, possibility of infraction increases, but the law is good, meant for good, and rightfully used, produces good. It is not evil, it does not by the nature of it tempt to evil. It is a misappropriation of the verse out of Romans to imply that the law causes sin. To use it as such as an application to life's problems leads to the inevitable conclusion that any authority has no right to be one. It does no good to say do what ever. We should say, rather, love God, and do as you will. But the commandment to love is law. And instruction in righteousness is also law. Washing with the water by the word, the charge of the husband, is law. And a husband who cannot love as Christ loved, turning to Peter and issuing the law, instructing in the things of God, i.e., his commandments and his purposes, is to deny the Christ one claims to follow. Jesus did not just let Peter go on ignoring his actions, but rebuked him. And that is the example which Christ gave in laying down his life for his bride- accepting the consequences for doing and expecting of his wife to do those things which he as the head of the household was determined should be done to honor his Father.

This is the BEST illustration of law and grace {with the fewest words} I've ever read. Thank you.

Pastor
I like how you get at the problem from every angle.

Really, REALLY love this metaphor.
Thanks, Tullian for such a clear picture of grace vs law.
My life was metamorphosed when the beauty of Grace captured my heart.

What if I am really "Type A" or "obsessive" toward my wife about... flirting with other men? or getting drunk? or dressing provocatively in public? Should I then stop being "legalistic" or “Mr. Notice-It-All” toward her as Tullian is suggesting? Of course not.

OR, let's look at this illustration from Paul Zahl from the wife's perspective. Shouldn't she show the same grace and long-suffering toward her husband for being Type-A as he should show to her for being messy? Or is the premise faulty?

This illustration is insufficient and inaccurate for applying grace in a Biblical way. Ephesians 5 and 2 Timothy 3 (among others) speak of AVOIDING those who act in ungodly ways. Not "if he would just stop noticing" as the illustration suggested.
The conclusion of the illustration could have pointed the husband to learn patience toward his wife, and to seek help to lead his wife (and him) to repentance. IGNORING is never the attitude we should have toward sin/discord.

The dog-chasing-tail circular debate regarding Law and Gospel is the result of failing to see the Law in its proper redemptive historical context as that particular Covenant made with a specific covenant people (Israel). This covenant, commonly called "old" by the New Covenant authors, was and is a "ministry of death", "ministry of condemnation", and a "dividing wall of hostility" between God and man (2 Cor 3:3-11, Eph 2:14-15).

Paul declares that this "old" covenant has been abolished and come to have no glory at all in the death and resurrection of Jesus Christ (Heb 8:13, 2 Cor 3:13, Rom 7:1-6, Eph 2:15, Col 2:14).

Paul now speaks of the New Covenant way in which believers should walk and serve. Not according to the Law as a so-called "rule of life". But according to the new way of the Spirit.

"But now we are released from the Law, having died to that which held us captive, so that we serve in the new way of the Spirit and not in the old way of the written code" Romans 7:6

With respect to our Christian walk then, Paul now contrasts walking in the "flesh" against walking in the "Spirit". He doesn't frame New Covenant ethics around the Decalogue. Nor does he put New Covenant ethics into an artificial "law" vs "Gospel" framework. See Galatians 5:13-26 on this.

If we walk according to the flesh (enmity, strife, jealousy, fits of anger, rivalries, dissensions) we will be like the overbearing husband in the above illustration.

But if we walk in the Spirit, keeping in step with Him, and producing his Vine ripened fruit of righteousness (love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, etc), our lives will shine forth with the glory of the risen Christ who lives within us! (Gal 2:20)

So in this analogy to marriage, we are blaming the husband for picking up after his wife and therefore giving an air of accusation, and we demand that he change and "stop noticing." But if we look at it from another angle, couldn't the same be said for the wife? Couldn't we say that she should change and start picking up her things because she knows that it upsets her husband? Why is the conclusion that the husband should stop accusing his wife, but not for the wife to begin reaching out in love toward her husband by picking up after herself?

The irony is that at the hinge of this article is a demand- for the husband to "just stop noticing." So in this article about grace, a "law" is at the heart of it. Anyone else notice these things?

It's almost as if you're saying that because of the gospel of grace, there are steps to be taken, efforts to be made, and imperatives to obey- but no, we can't say that, can we? Instead, we'll just tell the husband to "just stop noticing." I mean read the sentence near the end of the article: it even has an "if" in it. I thought "ifs" killed?

Steve,
Thanks I agree. I was only asking Tullian about getting more detailed with the verses because my friend says Tullian doesnt fet into the text much and just gives the same examples and phrases every sermon without much exposition of the passage. I disagree After my wife and I watched Deyoungs series we were depressed thinking if his view was true it would make me think about me more and Jesus less. He kept saying we have to work hard at our sanctification. Yikes. I doubt Jesus came to fulfill the law for us only to lay another law of Christian living rules etc on us. He spoke about sanctification like it was law. But I'm sure he didn't mean it. I agre on Phil 1:6. That's why I'm a Calvinist

Hi Mike,

Here's a good text,

"He who began a good work in you will bring it to completion."

___
Those who are always after you to look to yourself and what you do, or how you feel about if you are living up to the Christian life, or not, are just sending you back into yourself. That is the wordt possible place to be for a Christian. That either begets pride, or despair. And that's it.

Look to the external Word, alone. It is your assurance. Totally apart from anything that we do, say, feel, or think.

Again Tullian. I'm in 100% agreement over these things and do not intend to be critical. Your exegesis is appreciated as it helps me learn how to do the same. God bless

The new man was created according to God, in true righteousness and holiness. (Ephesians 4:24) As born again regenerated Christians, we "delight in the law of God according to the inward man." (Romans 7:22) The New Testament is full of commands that the Lord has given us. We understand that our justification only comes through Christ's work. But, once saved, we are called to renew our minds so that we can prove what the good, acceptable, and perfect will of God is. We do this because Jesus said, "If you love me, keep my commandments" and in the great commission, he said to, teach "them to observe all things that I have commanded you" (John 14 and Matthew 28)

So, it is not true to say that law begets resistance. The Christian loves God's law and is called to study it so that, in the power of the Holy Spirit, he/she can walk according to God's will.

"Oh, how I love Your law! It is my meditation all the day." Psalm 119:97

The law is not the problem, sin is. The law is holy, just, and good. It is nothing less than God's perfect will! For the Christian, studying God's law brings delight, repentance, and new higher levels of obedience.

One last comment. The analogy is this blog post is flawed. Comparing God's holy will to the preferences of a flawed irritable husband is incongruous.