Social Sanity Book Club Chapter 6: Loving Well

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Sarah Zylstra
Welcome back, we are having our book discussion about social sanity and an Insta world. I am Sarah Zoster. And I am delighted to be joined here by Stephanie Greer, who is the author of chapter six on relationships. Stephanie is she got married during the pandemic, interestingly, and at one of those pandemic weddings that no one could go to. So she had to be super creative. And then she has a little boy who is one year old. She lives in Baltimore, where she works for the garden church, primarily focusing on thinking about planting healthy, gospel centered churches in areas under resourced areas. Stephanie, welcome. It’s so good to have you here. It’s good to be here. Let’s jump right in. Can you tell me? Can you remember getting your first social media account? What was that like for you?

Stephanie Greer
Yeah, so I, you know, it’s funny, the first social media account, I think that is, like, important to me, would be Facebook, because you needed a.edu account. But if I think back, I remember the MySpace days, I’m probably cringing to think about that. And before MySpace, I think there were, I used to be into anime. And so there are tons of anime blogs, but we won’t go way back into middle school and being made fun of will go straight to MySpace high school days, which, honestly, probably when I think about it now was, would have served to be some kind of discipline or it shows a lot of direction as to how I interact with social media, just because I was always on MySpace. Remember, the top eights, where you rank your friends, and people would publicly see who your top eight was. And so there was a very visible illness to social media at that time. But prior to that, yeah, I remember anyone could get on MySpace, but not anybody could get on Facebook. And so it felt a lot more exclusive. So I think that’s why it stands out in my mind, like, oh, I have to get to college. And then once I get to college, I can inherit all these student loans by all these books and actually sign into Facebook,

Sarah Zylstra
the most important part? Yeah, exactly. Yes. What did you like about it? Like when you were on there? Was it just like, the creativity of it connecting to other people? What drew you there?

Stephanie Greer
Yeah, well, I think we look at Facebook’s goal and mission and thought and they want to build relationships. And initially, it, it felt like a place where I could connect with my past, but also get to know the President and then opened up my opportunities for the future people that I would meet. So I got onto Facebook, right during orientation week for college. And so again, you could connect with all your friends from high school, let them know where you been, you know, all of these college events are happening. So you wanting to post photos. And you could catch up with friends that way. But then you’re also being able to connect with people that you would meet at some of these events. And then it just became the new phrase that you said, like, Oh, do you have Facebook to Facebook? What’s your name? Like? Let me add you that that kind of became the thing. So at first, it felt very new, refreshing, cool, intriguing. Just a cool place to put Facebook albums. When we had tons of albums back. Now it’s kind of like whatever you get lumped into no one makes albums, you’re not cool. But back then it was like, I can, you know, put all these compartments so that that that was exciting. It felt fresh, if that refreshing. And it felt like you were really tuning into your network. I don’t think initially when it started, you felt like you were contacting people you never had met before initially. But it just felt like oh, man, this is all the people that I know in one whole pool.

Sarah Zylstra
It’s almost like relationships with a little bit of steroids. And that right? Like, oh, I can network of friends. But now I can keep my old friends. Look for new friends strengthen the friendships that I’m right now, it was just like, fuel to the relationship fire, right.

Stephanie Greer
And there were a lot more boundaries, then. I mean, you had to really seek out someone’s page, you had to type their names in, you have to see if they were in your network, based on your location or your high school, where now we’ve kind of got steroids where we can just keep scrolling on stories and pages. So it’s changed quite a bit. From how I remember it.

Sarah Zylstra
How many friends like when you start adding all your friends? Like, how many friends did you have back then?

Stephanie Greer
Man, probably into the hundreds like 300 and I felt like that was like more than enough. And I looked at my friends ironically yesterday just thinking about social media and its impact. I’m like, I’m at one point, something 1000 And I’m just like, well do you really know all these? Do they actually know you? And then I get into too many existential questions and I’m like it’s too much. It’s not your it’s too much. Just go and feed your son now. It’s too much thinking. Yeah.

Sarah Zylstra
So at some point it did change from like this sort of the growing of relationships you already had into something else? Was there a point for you when it started to feel uncomfortable? Or you started to think, Gosh, I’m here a lot or or Man, am I really friends with that person? When did that change for you?

Stephanie Greer
That’s such a good question. I’m trying to think back. I don’t know that I necessarily started having some of those questions until maybe a couple of years ago, when I really started doing like audits on my time, looking at how comparison work prior to that social media, you know, so I got save 18 Move to college and didn’t know a lot of Christians. And so social media was, was a tool at that point of force. Because I got to meet individuals through YouTube videos, and individuals that lived that were friends of friends, that became my friends. And so it didn’t really feel like, Man, this is uncomfortable, not for me at that point, it really felt like this was another accountability tool, or this is just another way I can catch up with people. This is a way I can pray for the saints. So I think I embraced it probably, you know, and then I went into college ministry, and it was such a tool for the students. They just want it to be connected online. I think it was seeing how much time it took and how much impact it had on some of my students. Then realizing what kind of impact it started to have on me that I really started seeing a negative side to it. But prior to that, it was just a way to connect. Yeah, it was comparison snuck in a lot later.

Sarah Zylstra
That’s so interesting. And I think you’re right that sometimes we can see the negative effects in somebody else’s life first, right of like, Oh, right.

Stephanie Greer
What that will Yeah, always your time

Sarah Zylstra
on there, like, oh, man, she’s on there too much. But then boy to turn that mirror back around to yourself and be like,

Stephanie Greer
Oh, for sure. Yeah, the log is always more appealing. And someone else? Yeah, that’s a huge like, 10 by I can’t measure wood, whatever, a long amount of a piece of wood on my spec. And so yeah, it’s very easy. And I mean, you see so many students coming in and out of your apartment every day, as I worked as a resident director, and I’m like, wow, this is crazy. What a habit, when really, I would end our interactions and go do the same thing. But it felt more sophisticated, perhaps because I was older, but there really wasn’t much of a difference. Yeah.

Sarah Zylstra
Oh, that’s so interesting. So most like you have cases around for connection. Most most people do. I think when we did our we did a TGC survey and nine out of 10 women that they got onto social media to connect and then they stay on to connect with friends and family as well. They want those relationships. But here’s my question for you. If being in relationship means to know somebody and to be known, and you really know this, like living with you have lots of experiences of living with people where you’re really, and you know, people really well, is, is that an experience that we can get from social media?

Stephanie Greer
Yeah, you know, I think even you know, I can’t help but to think about the word know, and be known and what that looks like, I think in this society, we’re always trying to find our identity. And sometimes myself, I mean, I can only really put my business out there because I can’t speak for everybody else. But I can just say my friend, which is really just me, right? It is a hard thing, because our identity, honestly, the only thing that is sure, and steadfast is what’s anchored in Christ, everything else can change from one minute to the next. So I think when you say, you know, I’ve had experiences of really being known. When I look back on those experiences, I realized that I, I was giving that individual the benefit of the doubt, because they had spent time with me and proximity, and had quality. But really, who can truly know us, besides Christ, who can truly know us, besides God who really has that power? And it’s taken social media for me to think through? Yeah, we want to be known and want people to tell us who we are. But we don’t even know who we are. And I don’t necessarily think that that’s always the goal, although we make that the goal, but it’s unattainable to truly fully know. So I guess when you asked me that question, I’m thinking, Well, yeah, I definitely go to social media, to find things out about myself. But how dangerous is that? It’s, it can be pretty concerning. Ultimately, and then we can hold other people to standards of knowing us or obtaining this level of being known that I think only God really can do. And so it cheapens your social media experience, if that’s what we’re going and forced to look for pages of how to define ourselves outside of how God has told us, he defines us. Everything else has a lot more space to live and I think sometimes we look for identity and our social media interactions with individuals to tell us who we are and who we’re not. Again, that’s comparison. And it can get in keep you afloat for a while. But it can be incredibly discouraging in other contexts. So, yeah, I hope I answered your question. I guess it’s like, how who can really know somebody besides God? And, and so I’m not going to hold myself to that necessarily. But I do when I interact on social media, you know?

Sarah Zylstra
Yeah, I think I think you’re totally right. I think there’s a maybe a promise of social media that you would know a lot of people really well, and they would, would know you, right? You’re sort of taking them along in your life with you like, Alright, I’m here. Oh, look, now I’m over here, like, yeah, kind of walking along with them in their lives. Kind of, but it’s not really the same. For ice cream is a lot different than, like, I’m taking a picture of ice cream, and you take a picture of your ice cream, and then we kind of feel like we both had ice cream. Right? You know, that’s different than us, like, spending time together and rubbing against each other in ways that share? Exactly. Yeah, I just wonder if being late, you know, like knowing just being aware, like, there’s a level of relationship that social media can’t get us to maybe,

Stephanie Greer
right, I think that that awareness helps you actually cultivate relationships with with better expectations. And also step back, I mean, how many times have we like, looked at someone on social media who is like six degrees removed from us, we’re gonna really, really know them. And we start to curate all their experiences. And then we have this narrative about who they are, but really, we don’t know them at all. And so that can happen, you know, how much more people we think we know a different aspects, you know, I curate my Instagram experiences, I post what I choose to post, I don’t post certain things. And so it would be very dangerous, and can be concerning to have someone build a narrative of knowing me on that, although it is a form of knowing it’s just that they’re deep form, I think we, when you say that rubbing against and shaping that kind of happens most living among each other and walking, so that kind of limits us. But I don’t think that that’s a bad thing. And I think social media kind of gives us that makes us feel the power of being everywhere and knowing everything.

Sarah Zylstra
I think you’re totally right. And that makes me think about, you know, my next question of, we sort of feel like we’re Omniscient and Omnipresent. And we also feel like whether it’s a person that six degrees from us, or one degree from us, really, if they say something on social media, that fits into a narrative in our head of like, oh, did she say she, you know, is worried about Omicron, and so wants to wear a mask, like, then I almost feel like I can fill in all these other blanks about that person, like, Oh, I know who she is. And either I really like her instantly, or really don’t like her instantly. So there’s kind of this one dimension, like I’m taking one piece of information, and building what I think that I know about her, which of course people are doing to us as well. And my question is, we know that’s not right. Like, you know, we know there’s more to a person than that. How do you kind of stop yourself from or like, slow that down? Or come at that in a more healthy way?

Stephanie Greer
Yeah. In terms of not assuming I know, the the write up for the narrative on someone? Well, I mean, I wish I could tell you that I am super noble, the Holy Spirit descends upon me every time I’m about to make a horrible judgment. But it’s people, people help me, primarily my husband, he’s around me the most, and he hears my most unfiltered comments in my friends, and, again, you can’t really dislike who you pray for, for too long, you can’t really remove myself from you know, different preferences. So the way that I keep myself under guardrails is one be willing to step away from the social media persona of that person or their profile for a season of a time and actually pray for them and if I have an opportunity reach out to them. Now this this is if someone is in my proximity, because I feel like that’s more of the difficulty is with you know, COVID and preferences and now I’m a mom so there’s a whole plethora of preferences I had no idea existed should you use essential oil should you not should you homeschool? Should you not should you sleep playing Sleep Train should you not sleep train my goodness. And so and people will post their you know, little characters are being Twitter’s more dangerous for me and make their their their things known. And so for me, I have to take a step away from that, and intentionally remind myself of the humanity of that person, and then remind myself that we don’t actually have to agree social media kind of gives us that image that we put this, this photo up or this status or you shared something. And then every one of your ideologies lines up with that. And it’s like, we don’t even want to be held accountable for stuff we thought about 10 years ago that may have changed. I don’t I don’t know these things. So it’s other people around me. It’s my husband just asking me questions that aren’t even like super deep, they’re just like, oh, like, do you know that person and I’m like, actually don’t like that actually helps stop me and splash water in my face. To help me think, actually, I don’t actually know this person. And if I do know this person, and they are posting things that are just different, I really do have to remember that they’re made an image of God. Like, it sounds very elementary, but it helps me. And then when I look at scripture, and realizing all that I’m called to exercise and the fruit of the Spirit, self control and patience, gentleness, love, there’s really not a lot of room for me then to tear that person apart. Now, there might be things that I mean, need to do for the sake of my own conscience for the sake of my own soul, but it protects me. And I think the Holy Spirit keeps a really short leash on me by God’s grace, because I could go pretty wild very quickly. So people in the Holy Spirit Yeah, yeah,

Sarah Zylstra
no, I think you’re not alone. And that more than half the women who responded to our survey said that they are sometimes feel irritated by other people on social media. Yeah, for sure. And of course, we feel irritated with people in real life, too. So it’s not that quick, that we feel irritated, done. So yeah. But it does seem like going on social media, our whole point to be there was to connect with people, right, and to like, be with our friends and legs, Shore big pictures of our baby or, you know, know, and be known with people that we like. So it seems like to go on social media and and come away feeling irritated, or that you like someone less than you did when you went on works in opposition to the whole point of why we wanted to be there in the first place. Like, is it? Yeah, can social media make us less connected to other people?

Stephanie Greer
Yeah, of course, it can. I mean, I think of so many studies done of individuals feeling more isolated, after they’ve just interacted on social media, it’s because we’re not interacting with flesh and blood, in that we’re, instead interacting with screens that are just relaying so much information to us without relationship. And so, of course, it can make us less irritable, I think it to, again, I keep bringing up the fact that we’re limited, I don’t think we recognize that God has given us 24 hours of the day. And he’s called us to steward those things. And I, I’d say he calls us to steward those things with a lot less than we probably due. If I just think of what God has called me to in terms of my roles and responsibilities, I have a very little time left for doing anything else than connecting, I think it’s so interesting, whenever I take a break from social media, and I come back, you know, I’ll say I just want to see how so and so is doing, I can accomplish that in probably five to 10 minutes. And it’s usually the 1530 minutes after that, that I get myself in trouble with scrolling and thinking and researching. So I do think social media can serve to make us a lot more isolated. Because we’re not actually spending time with the people that God has around us. And maybe we don’t want to spend time with the people that God has around us. And that might be something that the Holy Spirit is bringing to mind. We can go to escape, because I don’t have to spend time praying for crying with walking with a sister or a brother, or asking for forgiveness, or reading God’s Word or taking a walk. I mean, there’s so many other things. So I’m not here to bash it. I’m just saying it has taken the place of a lot of things that God has called us to do and in that way, so it’s just something to be stewarded think about it that way.

Sarah Zylstra
I love that you say that and it makes me think about like the food pyramid right of like, goes on the bottom and then the next and then the next and then some thinking like if there was a relationship pyramid Yeah, your relationship pyramid look like like what’s the bottom? Probably social medias toward the top?

Stephanie Greer
Yeah, it’s probably like candy. Yeah, I mean, at that point, I obviously my brain goes straight to the top. So I’m like, Oh, I know exactly what’s up there. The pyramid a small sliver. But yeah, I I keep you know, something that has protected my fingers from Twitter. I always say I’m getting ready to let the world know what I think about something which is the world is like 40 followers. I’m by no means an influencer. No one knows who I am. But so I go on there and I’m like, wow, you know, what keeps me from that thinking about my neighbor outside like it almost. It keeps me from generalizations. It keeps me from being short. Because I think about the opportunity that I have to influence who is actually in my line of life. So when I think about that, that bottom, I think local church I think actual neighborhood I think community I think people that I am accountable to my family, my friends. I’m, and from then on maybe my job, I work at one home or work at the garden church. So it’s like, who can I influence that way with what I write with what I believe with how I coach. And then when we get to there? I’m like, Okay, well, I’ve got local church and my actual family. Okay, my job, then I think, okay, extracurriculars, which are individuals that I have met online, who I have made relationships with. I mean, I’ve been to a TVC conference, and had met individuals that I’ve only got to spend an hour with, but it was such a meaningful hour and lunch. And so we’re only connected online. And so I think there’s space for saying, let me use something that God has given me an opportunity to cultivate that’s a moral, I can use a very good or in a bad way. Great. And by the end of that leaves, like the scrolling kind of trivial, dubious that best cattle category of does this, will this do anything for God’s kingdom? Does this help me love God more? Does this help my neighbor, love God more? Is this even worth my time? Can this be dangerous in the realms of gossip? Could this be slander? Could this be malicious intent? And I just think, just like the Proverbs said, where there are words, you know, transgression is not far off. Oftentimes, once you have exercised all those other categories, what’s left is, is that I can only be here for a bit, or, you know, yield my influence in this way. So I think, realistically, though, we don’t always do that, realistically, that top candy portion is at the bottom, and I think other way, other opportunities starve because of that. And so again, that’s, it’s like what we formerly know what we functionally do is different. But I really do think we’re missing out a lot on the living together, walking with each other, extending forgiveness, I mean, a grudge can continue online. But a grudge can be squashed with a simple conversation of I forgive you, or listening to actually understand, and having a difference of opinions where sometimes a post does not afford us all the opportunities to think that way, you know, especially during election season, which I think we’re still reeling from that, you know, reeling from COVID, we’re reeling from all those things. And it’s so easy to just typecast somebody based on who they voted for what they think about certain words, beliefs, what their views on immigration, instead of saying, let’s sit let’s labor together, let’s walk through this. Let’s listen to understand each other.

Sarah Zylstra
Yeah. That’s so good. I want to know, how do you actually get there? Like, how do you? So social media is the top of the pyramid? And how do you make it? So you don’t lose all that time and starve out? Those other relationships? Are there when you think about your own social media use? I think out like Oh, or maybe other? Did you set a timer? Like are there? Do you try and get off to curate who follows you? I know your Instagram is private? Is that a step that you’re taking? Talk us through? What are the you know, boots on the ground ways that you try and make your relationship pyramid the right way?

Stephanie Greer
Yeah, I love that. You asked that question for two reasons. One, because we can talk about these high and lofty things and and quote Scripture about the days are evil. And you know, only God knows us. He’s the one who knows everything when our hearts condemn us. And these are great text and the word is sufficient. But I love that you ask that because you can hear something like this and be like, okay, so that doesn’t apply to me. I also like that you ask that for a second reason, is because I’m a normal regular person who? You know, it just seems like it’s a good question for normal folks like me. So the first thing that popped in my head when he said that is mostly I just need to mind my business, right? I tell people that I’m just trying to brush my teeth every day when they’re like, oh, you know, what are you? What are you? I’m like, I’m trying to brush my teeth and show up at work, right? Very simple tasks. What’s the next thing? And so as far as the timer goes in different methods, I think you really got to look at what’s what’s good for you, personally, but to do something small and tangible. So I’m notoriously known for deleting Instagram off my phone about like 30 times a month, which you’re thinking is that every day sometimes even that sometimes. No real talk I do. I will delete an app and remove myself because the lie, I think, Okay, the first step would be okay, what are some of the lies I’m trying to believe by dwelling on this, or what do I want out of this? And so if what I want out of it is to connect with people. I can do that for five minutes on my browser, I really can. And then I need to be okay with letting that be my appetite. But I think even more so it’s filling my appetite of other things. which is saying, Wow, I have my son, and I could scroll on this phone right now. Or I could just soak in the fact that he learned how to giggle a little longer, I really have to teach myself to like, ask God to open up my eyes to see that and to feel that appetite up. So I do only interact with social media for what I get. And so much so that when I do more of that, it makes me sick, which might be the Lord that’s just like, kind to me, where I’m like, wow, my eyes hurt. And my head hurts. And I’m feeling like I need to buy new furniture for my house. And I need a vacation now like, I just, I wouldn’t have those needs if I if I starved that and maybe filled my appetite with everything. So practical things is honestly not going to social media first thing in the morning, I honestly like running to God’s word. It’s just such a it’s way better are the days that I scroll first, oh, it’s detrimental. It’s just like I already know, God is it’s only gonna be God’s grace to like, turn the course. But I’ve already started looking at other things that aren’t mine and wanting things that aren’t mine, or comparing myself for not being as bad as someone else. So already on our horrible place. I mean, they’re Pharisee or I’m like, God be merciful to me. So packable things are don’t start your every day with with social media started with something else, even if that’s a walk, do something else. And then it would be yes, I have to schedule time I need guardrails, because I can scroll for 30 minutes. And I’m like, where did that time go? So guardrails. Telling people around me how long I want to spend on something, I don’t care how crazy that sounds. But I’m like, hey, I need to get off this in five minutes, I only want to be here for a little bit. And then deleting apps off my phone and making it harder to go to them. Because after a while, I’ve forgotten my Instagram password. I decided today I’m like, Oh, I don’t even remember what that is and actually does well for my, for my system. And I think when I do sign on there, remembering that that other person is sending me the same curated experience. And so we’re both trying to figure this out. As far as my private account, I did that. And my husband’s is private too. And it hasn’t always been. So I asked him like, Oh, why don’t you make your private, your profile private? And he said, One, you don’t want pictures of our baby everywhere? I’m like, oh, yeah, I remember I did. But too, I wanted less pressure. And for some reason, I felt like making it private. Felt like whether I post or I don’t pros or school or don’t scroll, there’s no expectation of me keeping up with the trends or the TIC TOCs. Or what’s popular, I can just, it’s arbitrary. I can do it. If I want to. I can do it to update friends and family and let them know what’s going on or not. So I think it just made it less complicated. For me personally. There’s no following people aren’t hoping to see what I post next. I’m not held in bondage that way. And so being private just makes it helpful. And I think my husband said this the other day, when I asked him to, he said, you know, ultimately,

Stephanie Greer
everyone doesn’t really know me. And so when I opened up my world to everybody, it kind of makes me feel like I need to maintain those relationships, that those those relationships aren’t trying to maintain a relationship with me. And I thought that was profound. I’m like, oh, yeah, you know, am I am I going to be a slave to this? Or am I going to use it for God’s kingdom? And I do think we’ve got to ask each other that question like, isn’t enough just to be neutral? Like what is neutral anyway? So I want to make sure that when I do post, I’m doing it for some sort of influence. That’s whether you know, it’d be good. Hopefully, that’s the hope. Yeah.

Sarah Zylstra
Do you think that having real life healthy relationships and friendships is kind of an antidote to the online experience?

Stephanie Greer
Yes. Oh, my goodness. Yes. Yes. For all of real relationships. Do I think I keep jumping into forgiveness, because I think it’s so supernatural that God even grants us forgiveness, and gives us the opportunity to do that. But you know, what, you can’t communicate that with like a post, or a conversation, where two people have expressed their grievances, their desires, how they were hurt, and then applying the truth of the gospel to that and then see each other in church next week, or down the street. It’s, it’s, I mean, it is the anecdote I have, I have no time but to my business with the actual people in front of me that what’s left is just what’s left. So I’m gonna I’m gonna push relationships every every time there’s something that we get from connecting and it’s not just always having to walk through hard things. It’s enjoyable things, right. I think Tim Keller was talking about this in a podcast, I think for TVC, actually, about how you know things like sunrises he’s enjoying things a lot more since his In recent diagnosis, and I think social media always shows me that there’s more that I don’t have. Whereas when I am doing real relationships, being in the city, the brick looks cooler. To me, the sun set looks great, the hydrant that is broken that I complain about water leaking is more of an opportunity for kids to run and the planet. And so I do think it changes our perspective, our mind and our thinking. And it helps me realize in my unlimitedness helps me stare at the the infinite God that is not limited in the same way. And so that happens in relationship. Even the pace of relationship being slower, to have dinner or to eat or to have someone over to do that walk slows me down, where social media just makes me think I can be everywhere at once. And I have to gather those experiences. And if I don’t feel a certain way, then that brings shame upon the where I think living in the here and now with people as much as possible, just as something else, and I prefer it. I think life is better that way.

Sarah Zylstra
I think that’s really good. I think that’s super like when you say it slowing, like real life slows you down. That’s really hitting me like that’s just true. Because, you know, on social media, it feels You’re right. Like you can be here and then you can be here and oh, look, now I’m doing this now I’m doing this. Look, she’s doing that, like the Yeah, it comes across as fast. It’s instant, right? And it’s almost like a 24 hour news scroll to really like, yeah, it’s always happening.

Stephanie Greer
We’re not meant to carry all that pressure. I get so sad when I’m like, oh, man, should I be praying for this? This this, this and this and this? And I’m and really, God is the only one who has the capacity to hold all those things, and I can go to him. That’s really good things.

Sarah Zylstra
Oh, I think that’s really good. That’s just a really important. Yeah, thank you can’t know all the things about all the people. And you’re not. So

Stephanie Greer
yeah, and isn’t it humbling. And you realize that there’s a million other details in that person that annoys me the million other details in their lives that I’m not privy to that if I were privy to what happened, you approach them in a lot different, different ways than we wouldn’t it would not bring compassion in our interactions. And I get that we’re a lot more. We’re indoors a lot more now. But I do think they’re even opportunities that God affords us very small opportunities that we can do being present in people’s lives that social media just sucks that time.

Sarah Zylstra
Yeah. Okay, so let me ask you this. Okay. When you think about friendships and relationships online, we can kind of rate those almost right, like I can unfollow you, or block you, or how do you or choose not? Or choose to friend you? Or you know not? But you don’t really do that, like at church? I mean, you kind of do like in the people you choose to talk to or your classmates or stuff, but you’re still running across this people like how do you write out? You know, who you pick? Are there times that you are like, Okay, this is a time when I need to unfollow, or this is like this is really, you know, I’d like you better if I didn’t see you online or like, you know, like, you think about that way that we kind of formalized our relationship bonds.

Stephanie Greer
Yeah, as you say that I think of a couple of things. One, I think of James too. And thinking about partiality, I think it’s easier to recognize partiality, when I’m in a local church, when I’m in a community, when I’m thinking about my preferences, and so I think the local church and being part of a community just affords me the opportunity to be confronted with that I live in a really dense city. I know that everybody’s context, but you know, over half of our members live within walking distance. So that means I’m running into people often. You know, I live in a neighborhood where just the next block or three different types of members from our church, and we can walk to church. And so I keep emphasizing local church and community because that that is just the world I live in, where I could just walk out here and interact a lot more and be confronted. But then also think of another thing, which is wisdom. If some if an interaction online is keeping me from loving someone who has made the image of God, then I say, I can remove myself from that interaction. So does that mean I unfollow people that seeing their posts continues to have me spread a false narrative about who they are? Yeah. And maybe I need to as a weaker sister to do that. to unfollow them so that I might love them. Like Christ loves them. So I feel like it doesn’t need to be some like hard fast commandment of like, oh, I unfollowed you there must be I hate you know, I’m following you because it’s easier for me to love you as you are physically than it is for me to Love the persona that you put online because it’s all of you follow who you are. And to keep myself from falling into that thread, it’s just easier just to not see your books, into, into into engage with you in a different way slower over tea over coffee or pray for you. So I want to say that it’s different from canceling people. And, you know, everyone wants to remove everyone toxic from their lives where we really rarely think, am I actually possibly the toxic person? Maybe. And the great The good news is there’s hope for that and the Gospel, like, come, come see drink. Those were heavy, heavy laden, but we might sometimes be the problem. So sometimes I just removed myself from the online persona, because I need to really look into my own patterns and recognize maybe I’m not I’m not the protagonist in the story. So yeah, do whatever it takes to pursue peace. Yeah, that means unfollow, great, that means log off great. Don’t fall into that threat of like, Wow, if I log off of you, I’m going to miss something that everyone else is having, like, I have FOMO in the best, like better than the best of them. And having a son has removed me from a lot of social interactions, where I’m like, Oh, wow, the quality of relationship is still intact. Here. I’m still loving known. I’m just not everywhere. I’m just trying to mind my business, right here in the 21217. And there’s a lot of work to do here. So yeah, that’s good.

Sarah Zylstra
I’m just going to keep going. Because I just have another question. I don’t know. Yeah. But what about So do you still have 1000? Friends?

Stephanie Greer
Reality or on Facebook, on Facebook?

Unknown Speaker
Like, how do you have friends?

Stephanie Greer
I don’t know. I will say I love being connected to individuals. So I do try to actually know those who are friend, or have had some kind of relationship. touch point. I think being in ministry and meeting a lot of different individuals affords more friends, but again, definition of what friends mean, do I have 1000, Ryder died. So I have 1000 individuals that are calling me out on sin, of course, now I have a very close circle, I’d say a close circle of like 10 to 20. Individuals who have known me in different circles that can love me well. And probably five to six that know me when I’m weeping and grieving and sobbing. It’s been a long year, a long year and a half. I’m combining 2020 into 2022. It’s all one year. And so that has been full of really great moments and really hard moments. And so I have a small circle of friends, but know what I’d like to say. When I remove the pressure of what people need to be for me, I do know a lot of people and love them. But they’re not all my inner circle friends. Is that is that answers the question? But yeah, so yes, for 1000 Friends, but some of those folks, you know, friends, people do purge things and stuff, I have no time i, if you made it into the grandfather of my Facebook before I cared about curating these experiences, then you’re just my friend. And there’s not much for you to see on there that you would be. But if you’re on there, and you see what I’m up to, then that’s great, too. So hope that answered your question. So yes.

Sarah Zylstra
It’s just interesting, because I’m thinking about this goat. I mean, this goes way off track of where we used to be. But like when you think about posting, you’re posting for both your best friends. And that random person you met at Camp one time? Yeah, um, that’s a pretty wide range of, you know, people who are consuming you.

Stephanie Greer
Yeah. Yeah. And I mean, that’s kind of why I’ve gone private in the sense that I just don’t want to be consumed or wanting that information to be everywhere at once. But I’m also not going to backtrack that Oh, like, you know, sometimes I do, but um, yeah, it um, yeah. being available to everyone is what that sometimes feels like on social media. But I do think that’s mostly a millennial type of thinking, like, as I look at the older people in my life, and some older saints, they’re not consumed by what people post that kind of posts in there off. Then I have some other older people in my life who are consumed by what’s posted, and they take it as truth. And they, they’re there. They’re run by fear. And so I’m kind of looking at both of those worlds. And I want to be somewhere in the middle that says, I post influence I post to interact. But ultimately, these individuals are not a an example or reflection of me, it’s too much to bear. So I’m just like, I’m here. Is I yeah, just more more of a Yeah, it sounds selfish, but it’s more of a limited capacity of I can only control what I can control and I kind of dip out for all the other things. I don’t want to be ridden by fear. And I also don’t want to put isn’t an apathetic way that doesn’t consider my audience, but it is wide, you know, it is a wide, wide array.

Sarah Zylstra
Do you if I am a terrible poster? If I am not posting am, I am like kind of choosing not to share? Am I then not doing a good job of building relationships or letting people know me?

Stephanie Greer
Yeah, good question. I’m wondering if that’s what people feel held by that standard. But again, those are the unwritten rules of social media in which it has now I’m now becoming a slave of it. And posting versus not my husband, I use my husband a lot, because again, I’m watching someone who’s so different than me interact, he doesn’t think twice about a post. He’s not mulling over a caption. He’s not held by the same restraints. So he posts, I tell people, you want to know what’s going on with me and my baby just hit up. Kevin, again, I’m sure he knows he’s posted. For me. As for me, in my mind, it’s too much thought. And so if I feel like I’m being pressured by those constraints, I realized that that’s keeping me from something else. And so I removed myself from that situation. Because I don’t want to build a platform or feel like there’s pressure there. So there’s different types of people, there’s people that feel no pressure, and they post every update every emotion, every type of sadness. And that is, maybe what where they feel like they’re out with their conscience. And I would ask them, Why do you post? Is it to maintain? Is it to uplift? Is it to feel a certain way? And the same way I asked myself, are you posting by compulsion? Are you posting by wanting people to think a certain way of you? It’s a fair question. And so when I feel like I’m starting to feel bogged down by that question, Should I post more? Should I not post more? Should I post more sad, because we’re happy. I’m like, ooh, these questions in and of itself is calling for me to pull away. And until it becomes an arbitrary function for me, in which I want to influence just by what I influenced slightly, then I’ll post more freely. But you’ll notice I’m posting in darn well, seven months, because I’m currently asking myself, why do you even do this? Is there is there a compulsion there? And the answer is yes. Which is why I’m not posting. I don’t know, I don’t know that it’s free to me right now. So I just don’t, but I love the people in my life that can freely post without comparison or compulsion, they just kind of want to let people know what’s going on. There’s space for both of us. They’re supposed to space for the introspective over thinkers, and their space for those who just want to let grandma know how everyone’s doing. Yeah. And can both interact there. Yeah.

Sarah Zylstra
It’s funny how much we turn it in on ourselves, right of letting the pressure that you put in your stuff like Is this your right day post too much sad to push too much? Am I posting too much? Am I not posting enough? But really, I never think about my friend, you’re posting too much sad. You’re posting too happy. You’re posting too much. You’re not posting enough? Yeah. You know, I don’t think there’s actually people out there looking at us thinking like, gosh, I’m timing Stephanie. And it’s been like, yeah,

Stephanie Greer
you know, we’re doing those. Yeah, I cut you off and say in those who do curate, because I’ve been one of those people, oftentimes have other things they need to focus on. To be honest, if I’m angry that someone is telling everyone that they’re sad about this one emotion, like there’s just the wisdom, maybe I’m designed for them to have more wisdom, I can just take that energy in a lot of different ways and pray for them to grow in wisdom. Yeah, and not curate their experiences. That makes sense. Like, if you are curating someone’s experience, I think if you don’t have proximity to them, by way of, you know, I disciple a lot of young individuals, and sometimes I’m like, Whoa, that Facebook is where our job individuals, you know, where people may look to give you a place of employment, and maybe you shouldn’t post that, you know, I’m in relationship with them. And I’m able to curate that with different other other different facets in their lives. Other folks who are mad that they posted their 18th vacation that’s just on me. They’re allowed to do that, you know, they’re allowed to cultivate that experience. Yeah. Yeah.

Sarah Zylstra
It’s tricky. Is there enough? Is there enough good here to stick around?

Stephanie Greer
Yeah, as we’re talking, I’m like, Ooh, is this good? Or is this helpful? I don’t know. I hope, I hope someone sees it as neutral and they really get to ask the Lord, what what he would have them and how they think about everything that they do their words, or your words are just as accountable online as they are as as we’re talking here and there. So does that change my interaction? It should, it should change my interaction. And my boasting in my goods, maybe? Right? So is there good. I think the question is sure there is, but it requires thinking, yeah, and I don’t know, that everyone always thinks that’s it, you know, just requires thinking consideration.

Sarah Zylstra
Yep. I think that I think that’s perfect. I think you’re right. It requires more intention. And I think maybe as a society, or at least parts of us in our society are getting to the point of realizing like, this is this probably requires more thinking than we’ve been giving it.

Stephanie Greer
In general, and not just in social media, but in everything else. That’s why, you know, I press on relationships, because when you sit down and you actually interact with someone, and then hold the Bible True, or think about these things, you’re just, you’re you’re, you’re at much more pause. We just don’t critically think a lot anymore, because social media has so much todos what’s it feel? Yeah, and so I just do think we should urge ourselves and think, wow, have I considered these things? You know, it’s just something. Yeah, considering.

Sarah Zylstra
That’s good. Sophie, thank you so much. This is so fun. You, I agree. Yeah, just really worth I feel like we’re just starting to open the conversation. Especially about relationships. I just think there’s a lot more for us to learn and be introspective about, like, where should this fit on that pyramid? And how healthy is and are those expectations? My own pressures? You know, that I think I’m growing really, am I grown relationships on here?

Stephanie Greer
Yeah. And not to be so introspective, that it drives you into a pit. But just to really be examining yourself like it’s not for this purpose of shame. I’m not here to say that those who spend hours of time on social media are necessarily doing anything sinful. I’m here to say it’s worth thinking about. Yeah,

Sarah Zylstra
that’s good. Yeah. That’s good. Well, thank you very much. Appreciate it.

Stephanie Greer
Thank You.